Comic Book Questions.

[Seth]

Now I know this site is for animation, but I'm currently dabbling in Comic Books until I can get a better hand on Animation. Any help would be much appreciated.

I seem to be having real problems fitting my ideas on the page. I'm use to having my drawing take up a whole page, not a teeny tiny panel. Currently I'm using 11 x 17 comic book paper. I plan out my panels and roughs first on an 8.5 x 11 paper. At first I was using on average 5 panels, (depending on what the story needed to be told) that required me to draw way to small. So I switched to 3 panels per page and I still suffer the same problem.

Please throw any ideas out to me, please. I'm really frustrated. Thanks.

[frankenart]

i do a little freelance comic stuff on the side but heres a tip i can offer--draw a panel on a bigger sheet like 8 by 11 paper for said panel then scan it in the computer shrink it down then print it back out at your desired size then transfer that image to the final 11 by 17 board via a light desk or transfer paper.hope this helps.

[Rodney]

I seem to be having real problems fitting my ideas on the page. I'm use to having my drawing take up a whole page, not a teeny tiny panel. Currently I'm using 11 x 17 comic book paper. I plan out my panels and roughs first on an 8.5 x 11 paper. At first I was using on average 5 panels, (depending on what the story needed to be told) that required me to draw way to small. So I switched to 3 panels per page and I still suffer the same problem.

Seth,
I read your post and then went away without answering for awhile as I'm really not sure what to say. I suppose I could say, "I don't really understand the question." ;)

If taking your words literally... "I'm having problems fitting ideas on the page". I'd say this may be a matter of understanding the sequential/narrative form of comics. This fits with your thoughts on the size of the panels. A key to understanding comics is to understand that the panels aren't really there. Importantly however, it is the margins between those panels where (for the reader) actions tend to take place.

Compare this with animation where we've got a setup (an anticipation), an action and a reaction. While action can be depicted on a comic book page usually it is better to leave that... in between the panels... where the imagination of the reader will fill in the gaps with their imagination.

Consider then your larger image (the one you want to draw on a whole page).

What is the setup or stage?
When does that setting change?
Where in that drawing is there an opportunity for character progression?
What are they doing?
What are they saying?

It is very possible that (in comics) that one largish drawing will capture a reader's attention for several pages.

The panels are the primary mechanism in comics you can use to dictate the pace.
In comics the timing of an action, activity or sequence must be consciously planned over not just one or two panels but several pages.

[Seth]

Yeah, I guess now that I'm re-reading my post I can see how it is hard to follow. I'm terrible at explaining myself. Umm, lets see. I guess what I'm trying to say is I can't stand drawing in little confined squares/panels.

I've been looking at Some of my Marvel and Disney comics, and I'm quite puzzled by how they put so much detail into such a small drawing.

Even using big sheets of Comic Book paper I still find the space I have to draw on is limited. I just cant seem to draw that small and have decent proportions to my characters, or detail.

I hope this makes a little more sense. Anyway, thank you for all the other info. I'm really trying to give this comic book thing a go ever sense you suggested the idea to me.

Thanks Rodney.

[Rodney]

Umm, lets see. I guess what I'm trying to say is I can't stand drawing in little confined squares/panels.

I've been looking at Some of my Marvel and Disney comics, and I'm quite puzzled by how they put so much detail into such a small drawing.

So you did mean what you said! ;)

The reason it is so hard to believe that comic book artists put so much detail into small spaces is that they generally DON'T do that. As Frankenart said, they tend to draw larger and then shrink the images down.

With the advent of computer drawing/inking this is even more the case as you can zoom in almost to infinity and draw as if you were on exactly the same (larger) scale. The pencil drawings may be just sketched in but in the inking stage its easy to add detail.

Personally, I don't care for excessive detail in comic book pages. It will often distract the reader from the read-through. It is nice to add additional details that the reader may miss the first time through but will catch when reading the story again. For instance, something is revealed to the reader and they flip back to a previous page, "Aha, so that's what happened... I missed that!". That always makes for fun reading.

Obviously if you want to slow the reader down then you may want to increase the detail. If the action is moving quickly or the scene is moody then the less the better.

Draw large. Shrink down the drawing to fit on the page.
Note: You will have to factor for the thinner lines at the shrunken scale.


Do you have an example of the level of detail you would like to see in your own work?
Can you post an example of what isn't fitting properly in a panel/page?

[Rodney]

While looking for some decent reference material I ran across this:

http://www.boltcity.com/workshop/copper_tutorial/

The creator of 'Copper', Kazu Kibuishi apparently draws on 15in x 15in paper.
He keeps his layout and design work simple but has a nice level of detail.
Of course Color can lend a whole other level of detail.

Pretty cool comic: http://www.boltcity.com/copper/

Another thing to consider...
Often an artist will spend a day or more on one page. (and this is often just the pencils... the inker may take another day or two per page). It's possible to add a considerable amount of detail in that time period.

A decent goal in my opinion is to draw one completed comic book page a day.
Anything less and it'll be hard to maintain a living drawing comics.

[Seth]

Well, this is my script for a 1 page comic. I'm just doing a random fight seen to get the hang of it. Because action seems fun.

"Battle Field:

Panel 1:
Xbalanque can be seen running towards the viewer with a Macana in hand.
You will die by my hand!

Panel 2:

Xbalanque swings her Macana towards Saba's head only to have it blocked by a leather shield. SFX Clunk

Panel 3: Saba returns a blow to Xbalanque's face.
Your attacks are too slow for the Great Saba!
SFX Crack"
I agree with you about detail. I was reading one of the newer Batman comics and it hurt my head just trying to look at everything. As for me I would like to keep my cartoony style. Maybe a little more detail since it's not being animatied. But pretty much like how the Disney comics look.
Example. http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv113/Sethro89/1562791-poe_super.png

As for the panel I'm having trouble with, I took you and Frank's advice and drew it on a big piece of paper to get the detail in. But this is an example of what I was trying to draw in a 6 x 5 panel. Too hard for me.

http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv113/Sethro89/XbalanqueRunManaca0001.jpg

I'm reading that Copper Site right now. Thanks for the link.

[Rodney]

Very nice Seth!

You are being too hard on yourself here.
I also think like most of us you may be addicted to splash pages. :)

The setup your have for panel one would make for a pretty nice splash page. Even then I would consider putting the object of her rant into the same frame with her... just back and over to the right where she is looking.

Notice your example panel with Magica de Spell.
She has a piece of dialogue so the camera zooms into a Close Up on her.
The other example also has dialogue but only the talking character is in full frame.

One stumbling block that you might need to overcome is to consider where you will place your Establishing Shot. Often this will be the first page of your comic book but you'll want to have another establishing shot each time your locations change.

If the reader joins the story while it is already in progress (highly recommended!) then your full page drawing may make an ideal splash page and also serve as an establishing shot.

I manipulated your drawing a little and plopped them onto a couple of different layouts but not sure it's worth posting. I must say though... the automated inking via conversion to vector lines was spot on!

You should stop worrying about the detail in the panels and just get back to drawing! Put on a different hat for Inking details into those drawings. :)

[Rodney]

I think the tutorial I linked to has the artist placing the word balloons early in the process. (I'll have to look again). That can be a useful way to determine character and camera placement in layout.

That is an important difference between comics and animation (there is rarely a need for text balloons in animation!) but the order of importance in the creative process still remains. As dialogue will often dictate the action that will be performed, it is important to know what the characters will be saying first.

If I recall correctly a general rule is that you will have (approximately) one panel for every exchange of dialogue over the course of your comic. This is generally true even of silent comics where the only voices are that of internal dialogue.

[Seth]

Thanks Rodney. I feel a little more confident in my work sense listening to your advice. I seem to have a new problem now. I have Panel #1 and Panel #3 finished. But I can't seem to get a decent shot of Panel #2.

How do you make a picture of Xbalanque striking Saba's shield interesting? Every angle and pose I try either looks silly, or it's too hard to understand what's going on in the picture.

I know this is a really lose question, but does anyone have any ideas?
Thanks.

[Rodney]

I have Panel #1 and Panel #3 finished. But I can't seem to get a decent shot of Panel #2.

Hmmm... well.... It's kind of hard to say without first seeing panels #1 and #3.
I'll give you my first impression (Note: We usually shouldn't go for our first impression!)

If Panels 1 and 3 are both basically full body shots then it would be nice to make Panel two a close up on Saba's facial reaction. She might be holding the shield just over the top of her head while there is a slight image of Xbalanque Macana crashing into it with a big onomonopia... "BTWANG!"

(Note: Have fun with the 'sounds' at first but over the course of your comic try to limit your usage to similar words for similar sounds... it's all part o' the plan to gain that cult following of your comics!)

I have an image in my mind but haven't drawing it out yet.
In words picture it as the shield in the upper left corner with Saba's head taking up the majority of the frame. Perhaps a right shoulder might show at the lower right bottom.

That's my take.

[Solium]

Not sure I can offer any help but I feel your pain. When I tried to draw some comic books I could not fit everything my writer wrote onto a single page. I saw the comic book as "my canvas" and I wanted to take up as much space as I could on large detailed drawings.

I think it helps to get away from the habit of drawing "pin-ups" or "splash-pages" when designing comic book pages. Sometimes you can tell the story with half a face in a panel, or a close up of a clenched fist. (I'm just putting abstract ideas out there)

You already have the best idea, study other comic book artists works. ;)

[Phrogger]

Hey Seth, I just saw your post- I'm terrible about following the regular forum.

I'm taking Sequential Art at SCAD and they have us do all of our drawings at 10" x 15". This is the traditional American comic book page size before it's reduced (in Europe it's a little different). We do the art in 3 stages: 1. Thumbnails 2. Rough draft (blow up a thumbnail and tighten it up) and 3. Finished drawing (blow up the rough and tighten it more). I definitely think it's OK to draw your page at any size you want and then reduce it to the final printed size- but at least have a final size in mind before you start.

I would also say that it helps to start out with just 6 panels of equal size (the page will divide nicely with a 1/8" gutter between each panel)- work on the storytelling part and then you can play around with varying panel size and shape.