Lovin It

[Lifed]

Hey guys, thought I'd post my introduction thread. I really like the place from the looks of it. I'm on a lot of other animation sites, but this one has a good feeling.

I'm 16 (sophomore in high school), and I definitely plan to take animation classes and get a degree in college. I discovered my love for animation when I was about 8 or 9 and I had my mom's old videocamera and some paper to draw with. Since then I've read all the books I could find, and experimented a ton with animation. I don't do anything traditional anymore seeing as I haven't had much time to build that animation desk I dream of, but I have used a mix of flash and easytoon for a few years now. My tablet died last year so I've been having a hard time getting myself to do any projects, so I guess you could say I'm rusty. But I've been saving, and I'm fairly close to getting my long drooled over Wacom Cintiq. As soon as my summer job money kicks in, I'll probably be seen a LOT in the animation world. If you read that, thanks for your time! You'll be seeing me around.

[WillW]

Hi, welcome to the forum : D a cintiq really does make an impact on how you work.

[Lifed]

That's what I'm hoping, a mouse just isn't cutting it right now. Haha I can still whip out extremely rough or experimental animations, but nothing fancy.

[lavallelee]

i started with the mouse, if i would of started with a tablet or drawing table i probably would be 1000 times better now

your still really young, so its good timing

[WillW]

A long time ago I used to animate things with mouse and I swore that animating in flash with a mouse was the only way of doing it. I got the chance to try a tablet in college and I was changed.

[jeremyhopkins]

Lifed, if you do decide to buy a cintiq, I'd recommend a 3 year warranty from the store as well. Typically I wouldn't recommend for someone to pay more for a store warranty but since the cintiq is a niche product, having to return a broken, out of warranty cintiq to wacom is an expensive pain in the neck. I've been dealing with this issue recently and I'm not impressed by wacom's customer service at all. Chances are you might not have a problem since I know many people who have never had issues but if you do, prepare for some unsupportive support calls.
My advice would be to save your money, invest in some atelier life drawing classes; study and draw animation while you're learning how to draw from life very well. Technology changes very quickly and even the best cintiq has poor resolution compared to cheap 24 inch widescreen monitors today. Developing your artistic eye is priceless :) Sorry I know you didn't ask for my opinion but after my troubles, I wanted to save you a few bucks. Plus in a few years I'm hoping that we'll see a cintiq at least at 1920x1080 resolution.

[Lifed]

No no, I need all the advice I can get no matter what point of view it's from. I appreciate it guys!

[Benjy]

A long time ago I used to animate things with mouse and I swore that animating in flash with a mouse was the only way of doing it. I got the chance to try a tablet in college and I was changed.

No disrespect but for the longest time, I thought a mouse was an animal that ate cheese and played around on Saturday morning cartoons with his friend Tom. I just don't get it. Call me old fashioned but I didn't really get computer savvy until recently (about 3 years ago) and I'm still a little miffed that students (and some professionals) coming into the animation market are calling themselves animators. In my honest opinion, they are more like puppet masters than animators; they punch keys and roll a mouse on a screen to manipulate a wire-framed model using a software package. Isn't that repetition? Those guys are a dime-a-dozen. Sure, technology is great but there's nothing like the feel of a pencil lead as it glides over a clean piece of paper. I don't need a warranty for my pencil and I can still draw if the power goes out. Some of the best animators in the CG arena right now come from a traditional animation background! I think Don Bluth trained many of them. I came here to learn from one of the best.
Now that I've said that, I'd advise anybody to begin drawing and animating with pencil and paper. Once you have mastered the principals of animation using pencil and paper, it's easy to learn the software and apply all those principals later. I read that somewhere on this site and I think it's true.
Drawing (the old fashioned way) will always be popular; somebody has to design the characters and illustrate the storyboards and I'm sure it all begins with the humble pencil and paper. I think we should create a niche for ourselves here and learn the basics. I, personally, don't want to follow the herd. My goal is to learn the basics and have some job security!
Don't mean to annoy anybody, just want to offer my two cents.
Thanks
Benjy

[WillW]

At the time (around 8 years ago) It was the only real way I could practise it. I didn’t have access to any scanners/video cameras at the time, all I had was this really awful digital camera that could only store a few images at a time. Not only that any hand drawn animation I created had to be done with out a light box, or a peg bar, or anything. Didn’t have access to any of those things/didn’t know they even existed. So my only option was to hand draw all the frames into the computer, just using a mouse instead of a pencil. Certainly if I had known the things I did now, I would have been able to make hand drawn images work. It was like learning to draw all over again, it wasn’t easy and I put up with it for a few years. The methods I use to animate now are no different to how I would do things with pencil and paper, flash is my paper and my tablet pen is my pencil. I am looking into building myself the traditional set up that I should have had right at the start, then again there isn’t any guarantee that I would have been any better off then I would have now. ( I probably would have but I still feel like I have plenty of years yet to practice and get better.. I'm only 21)


I feel like I hijacked this thread with a mini life story, whoops :D

[jeremyhopkins]

In my honest opinion, they are more like puppet masters than animators; they punch keys and roll a mouse on a screen to manipulate a wire-framed model using a software package. Isn't that repetition? Those guys are a dime-a-dozen. Sure, technology is great but there's nothing like the feel of a pencil lead as it glides over a clean piece of paper. I don't need a warranty for my pencil and I can still draw if the power goes out.

Benjy, I appreciate what you're saying and it echoes what many board members here feel as well. The real issue, since computer animation became a viable career option, has been a focus on technology rather than art. Though before cg people would talk about how many drawings it takes to make an animated feature which we all know is ridiculous but the reporters need a simple and clear story to present to their audience. Talking about acting or story structure is boring and illusive for most people - at least from my experience. Regardless of the medium, the goals are the same. Someone might have a preference for a certain medium and certainly there is a huge wealth of experience, knowledge and appeal to traditional animation on paper that doesn't exist yet in any other form. However, I don't think great cg animators are a dime-a-dozen. They are very hard working individuals with a unique talent to make their cg puppet come alive. The best animators aren't focused on pushing buttons, their focus is on delivering a great performance that the audience will remember and take with them when they leave the theatre. The technician animators are television animators. I say this from experience since I've been handed scenes where the goal is just to inbetween the boards.
The significant advantage that tactile media, like pencil & paper and claymation, have is that there is nothing separating your heart from the medium. It sounds esoteric but seeing Ollie's (http://web.me.com/floydnorman/Site/Blog_/Entries/2009/2/26_perfect_ending.html) or Glen's (http://theartofglenkeane.blogspot.com/) sketches, you know this person is really in the moment with their character and it shows through in their emotional pencil work. I've found digital equipment so far very useful in augmenting the process once the emotional center has been found. So clean up, color, camera work.. all of this stuff is so much easier when done digitally. So I see nothing wrong in buying a cintiq as long as it's treated like a tool and not a necessity. In the past few years we've overcome an us vs them mentality with regards to cg versus traditional animation. I'd hate to see that regress since variety is the spice of life and appreciation of the many talents involved in stop motion, live action, cg and drawn animation is important in maintaining humility (http://sewardstreet.com/clips/Glen_on_Ollie_1.wav) & innovation.

Hope that helps in making your decision Lifed.

[Lifed]

I actually agree with what has been said. But just because I use my computer doesn't mean I don't do it traditionally. I do my best to have pencil tests, on PAPER, all sketched out before attempting to animate it in flash. And then I do mostly frame by frame in flash, and half of the time I use easytoon to get the sketchy, drafty feel of it first. I'm no puppeteer, I don't do anything with fake wire mesh models, I solely draw my frames and work my way to the finished product, just like any other animator. The reason I'd like a cintiq is so that I can do it as traditionally as possible without the paper and thousands of scanned images (even thought that does take away quite a bit of traditionalism).

[GullyStomper]

Hi Lifed, it's nice to meet you. :)

See if you can't try out a Cintiq before you spend all your hard earned cash on it. It's not the same as using a tablet and in my opinion, not close enough to replace drawing on paper.

...I just don't get it. Call me old fashioned but I didn't really get computer savvy until recently (about 3 years ago) and I'm still a little miffed that students (and some professionals) coming into the animation market are calling themselves animators. In my honest opinion, they are more like puppet masters than animators; they punch keys and roll a mouse on a screen to manipulate a wire-framed model using a software package...

I think puppeteers would argue the same point, that CG animators are closer to 2d animation than puppetry. And what does it really matter anyway? I think you're missing the entire point of what it means to be an animator.

[BrioCyrain]

Hi Lifed, it's nice to meet you. :)

See if you can't try out a Cintiq before you spend all your hard earned cash on it. It's not the same as using a tablet and in my opinion, not close enough to replace drawing on paper.



I think puppeteers would argue the same point, that CG animators are closer to 2d animation than puppetry. And what does it really matter anyway? I think you're missing the entire point of what it means to be an animator.

QFT(Quote For Truth)

An Animator can use many different tools, it's what the tools are used for that creates Animation, be it an animated texture 3D model, a drawing in flash, or a drawing on paper inked and painted. It doesn't matter what they use.