The Princess and the Frog [Archive] - Don Bluth Animation

zanekohler

03-26-2009, 02:12 PM

I can't speak for any other Disney films but I think Enchanted was trying to be a clone. I got that they were trying to spoof off what was familiar.

I do agree it is nice to see them vary a little in style albeit rare. I think Helga in Atlantis had a cool change from there usual style with more sharp edges.
http://th01.deviantart.com/fs30/300W/f/2008/055/c/0/c0a8a37924edeeef.jpg Granted she was not a princess.

Also I think Meg's style from Hercules was a bit of a departure.

I think with Princess Tiana looking similar is probably Disney (while playing it safe) not being afraid of their Heritage style. For me personally I am ok with it this time around if the character acting and story is good. I do think the next traditional project should push the bounds a little. Perhaps in the same vein as Snow White was to Pinocchio?

Lauren C

03-28-2009, 10:14 PM

I haven't seen Enchanted yet, but I also thought it was supposed to be sort of a spoof of the classic Disney films. As for the Princess and the Frog, as long as the story is reminiscent of the classic Disney, I'll be pleased. and so far from what I've seen of the style it looks Disney, so I'm okay with it. It's really all about a good story, and good characters, that's what makes a good movie. Amazing animation is icing.

IzzyS

03-29-2009, 06:00 AM

though, I admit. I might get sick of the music in the movie.
I'm not too found of Randy Newman, except in select movies or songs

Moneyguns

04-24-2009, 01:59 PM

I think I'm going to have to see a longer more detailed trailer before I decide if it entrests me or not. I just hope it's not like Enchanted. In my opinion I thought that movie was almost as bad as The Spiret :eek:(DONT SEE THIS, SAVE YOUR SELF A MIEGRANE, A FEW BUCKS, AND WHATEVER YOU ATE BEFORE IT)
Ya, Enchanted didn't really triger any emotions. It seemed like it was directed tords 13 year old girls or something, but everyones got there own likes and dislikes so I'm cool with that.
My sister liked it.

jeremyhopkins

04-24-2009, 05:41 PM

Steve Hulett wrote this on the tag blog:
On my way out, I saw a couple of kids -- who had been roaming around because it was "son and daughter day" at the House of Mouse -- enjoying the color clip of Princess and the Frog playing in the ahll display clip.

I'm going oout on a limb here, but I'm betting that Ron and John aren't going to be recycling older Disney 2-D animation like happened back in ye olden days -- the 70s and 80s

I just hope it's not like Enchanted.

Yeah I didn't want to say too much because I haven't seen anything and when I visited Disney they had the Princess and the Frog crew roped off but the impression I've got from others is that don't expect this film to fall into past traps. We have certain cliches associated with princess films and while the first trailer might make us think this is standard Disney run of the mill work, they might be surprised by what is coming together. Just keep in mind about the folks on the team.

I didn't see all of Enchanted but I thought James and his crew did a very fine job on the animated opening.

lavallelee

04-25-2009, 03:41 PM

have you guys/girls ever seen this??

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vh84g8rC2oA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vh84g8rC2oA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh84g8rC2oA

wonder if on princess and the frog, will use anything from previous movies

Snapai

04-25-2009, 04:02 PM

Oy, Lavallelee, that clip practically needs its own thread. XD

johncbeggs

04-25-2009, 05:00 PM

I thought Gizelle was supposed to look sort of like a copy and paste? maybe it's a partially biased opinion, I sort of enjoyed Enchanted, really

I didnt even think the girl character looked like her actor at all :(

johncbeggs

04-25-2009, 05:01 PM

lavallelee

04-25-2009, 07:25 PM

i know some anime copies each other too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi5MvPgvDKU

you think its done to save money?

Moneyguns

04-25-2009, 09:46 PM

Holy smokes, their like exact copies. What's up with that?

Hana

04-25-2009, 11:42 PM

Snapai

04-26-2009, 06:17 AM

If you watch the Fievel March animation tip (http://www.donbluthanimation.com/tips.php?c=2&t=93) Don mentions that he keeps copies of walks on hand so he doesn't have to plan them back out again, every time the character walks. I can see this as sort of an extension of that.

Consider that Robin Hood was made in 1973, when pencil tests would have still taken hours to days, and reference footage wasn't something you could just bring up on your computer. (it was still 13 years before the first digital ink and paint system was used on a Disney feature, if I'm remembering Great Mouse Detective correctly as the first one?)

Sure it was a cheat, but it probably saved the movie a MONTH of production time. :)

But hey, Don was still at Disney during Robin Hood, maybe he can fill us in on the story behind it! :D

lavallelee

04-26-2009, 06:47 AM

But hey, Don was still at Disney during Robin Hood, maybe he can fill us in on the story behind it! :D

i was thinking that too! :)

i still think its great we all get to talk to Don here

cartuneman

04-26-2009, 10:01 AM

I think it was just when you have an art morgue full of great animation movements why spend the extra time trying to recreate. All animation houses do this. Especially in complicated dancing scenes to slap stick moments. "If it works why try to fix it?". Heck if you think about it how many different ways can a coyote chase a road runner? but if you change the BG it makes a whole new chase scene as well.

"Suffering Succotash.......It's time to leave !...Stage Left!:D

jeremyhopkins

04-30-2009, 04:42 AM

Yeah that's one way of looking at it Cartuneman. I prefer to see scenes that are unique to that character. Look at Frank Thomas' Baloo animation when he was sparing with Mowgl(at least I think that's Frank's work.. let me know if I'm wrong). That's great and very memorable because it was unique to his character and the situation. Maid Marian's character isn't vastly different from Snow White and I"m guessing the Robin Hood shots were based on the Snow White live action rotoscoped reference rather than the animated scene. I think some of those shots were Don's too, please correct me if I'm wrong, so it would be interesting to find out the process. Guess what I'm saying is it doesn't bother me so much if they reuse characters that are similar in personality though I prefer that a story be written that doesn't have carbon copy protagonists. If those reuse scenes were used for Ken Duncan's Meg, they wouldn't be successful.

wonder if on princess and the frog, will use anything from previous movies
If you're speaking purely about animation, I'd say no.

BrioCyrain

05-09-2009, 07:55 PM

It seems like they are using that guy who did the animation for Echanted. I forget his name but he started his disney career during The Little Mermaid and then started his own animate-for-hire business. Seems like Disney wants to use him again.

jeremyhopkins

05-09-2009, 08:16 PM

BrioCyrain

05-09-2009, 08:18 PM

Ahh, if you're referring to James Baxter since his studio worked on Enchanted. He's back at Dreamworks now working as a animation supervisor. Hopefully he gets a shot at animating traditionally again.. he's a hell of animator and a very nice guy!

Interesting, I thought he was working on this too since Enchanted and Princess and the Frog seem to have similar character design.

dentitov

05-09-2009, 10:00 PM

Princess and the Frog Trailer
h6DmEgtibOg&e

johncbeggs

05-09-2009, 10:35 PM

Princess and the Frog Trailer
h6DmEgtibOg&e

That looks awesome, Now I have even higher hopes for this film even more now :D

Regan

05-09-2009, 11:44 PM

That frog has annoyed me in every trailer I've seen. :eek: Everything else seems great though.

Mithmeoi

05-10-2009, 12:07 AM

I have waited years for a feature length 2D film to come from Disney I really hope this one will be good. So far from the clips I have seen it looks very promising. The only thing that looks like it could be annoying is that lightening bug, but who knows. I'm keeping an open mind about it. It's one I'll definitely go to see in theaters.

WillW

05-10-2009, 01:44 AM

Ahh, if you're referring to James Baxter since his studio worked on Enchanted. He's back at Dreamworks now working as a animation supervisor. Hopefully he gets a shot at animating traditionally again.. he's a hell of animator and a very nice guy!

aww man :C hes my favourite animator of all time too. Seeing his work just blows my mind, I should favourite those line tests I found on youtube..

BrioCyrain

05-10-2009, 06:10 AM

After seeing that trailer it might actually be promising.

lavallelee

05-10-2009, 06:24 AM

before even seeing the trailer i knew it would be promising, after all its disney and they don't let bad 2d animations out on the big screen ;)

WillW

05-10-2009, 06:40 AM

before even seeing the trailer i knew it would be promising, after all its disney and they don't let bad 2d animations out on the big screen ;)

its a good thing they dont : D we'd probably get something as bad as Delgo if they let any quality of animation get shown in the cinema.

Hana

05-10-2009, 08:27 AM

Wow I actually want to see this now! I was pretty let down by the teaser they had released earlier probably because of the firefly. I hate the firefly so much. Other than that gorgeous animation and backgrounds.

I love the colour palette. Perhaps I'm just big on colourful things. xD I'm a little iffy on the humour but perhaps it's because I'm older now. I'm hoping the songs are good. I know many people seem to complain about songs in animations but I love them when they're good. They bring so much life to an animation and can be a fun approach to perhaps a boring plot point =P

Now I just have to wait till 2020 till it's released in Australia >_> This is one of the reasons Disney makes me cry.

CanAur

05-11-2009, 02:26 AM

Trailer

SMALL
http://movies.apple.com/movies/disney/princessandthefrog/princessandthefrog-tsr2_h320.mov
MEDIUM
http://movies.apple.com/movies/disney/princessandthefrog/princessandthefrog-tsr2_h480.mov
LARGE
http://movies.apple.com/movies/disney/princessandthefrog/princessandthefrog-tsr2_h640w.mov

HD480
http://movies.apple.com/movies/disney/princessandthefrog/princessandthefrog-tsr2_h480p.mov
HD720
http://movies.apple.com/movies/disney/princessandthefrog/princessandthefrog-tsr2_h720p.mov
HD1080
http://movies.apple.com/movies/disney/princessandthefrog/princessandthefrog-tsr2_h1080p.mov

Hana

05-11-2009, 03:27 AM

Wow! Thanks for those links CanAur. It was awesome to see it in high quality. Looks beautiful.

CanAur

05-11-2009, 10:54 AM

New Poster

http://prodisney.ru/phpBB2/files0/princessfrog_985.jpg

http://www.cinematical.com/photos/the-princess-and-the-frog/2007519 (http://www.cinematical.com/photos/the-princess-and-the-frog/2007519/)

SINGING ALLIGATOR! "lets make music together!"

Mithmeoi

05-11-2009, 11:09 AM

Ahhhh cool poster!!! That alligator... It's the "big lipped alligator moment!" >_> I watch too much nostalgia critic. The new trailers and this make me want to see it more now.

IzzyS

05-11-2009, 11:13 AM

Ahhhh cool poster!!! That alligator... It's the "big lipped alligator moment!" >_> I watch too much nostalgia critic. The new trailers and this make me want to see it more now.
it's only a "big lipped alligator moment" if it's a part of the film that doesn't seem to make any sense and has nothing to do with the rest of the film, not a charater's design :)!

lavallelee

05-11-2009, 11:17 AM

they kinda make that look 3d..

BrioCyrain

05-11-2009, 01:58 PM

they kinda make that look 3d..

Do you want them to make the cover art and posters more like the actual animation? Not all poster or cover artists have the same style as the animators.

Mithmeoi

05-11-2009, 02:14 PM

it's only a "big lipped alligator moment" if it's a part of the film that doesn't seem to make any sense and has nothing to do with the rest of the film, not a charater's design :)!

I know he just reminds me of it. :laughing: Especially since he plays an instrument so he's musical, a bit.

fanimation

05-11-2009, 05:36 PM

Hana

05-11-2009, 05:50 PM

yutaro

05-11-2009, 07:43 PM

I think the movie will be really great! I can't wait, this will be the first 2d Disney animated film I will get to take my 4 year old daughter to the theater to see. She loves all of the classics that we have on dvd but there is just something magical about seeing it in the theater!:D

John JHaha, I think I was 4 when I saw Snow white in theaters. It's the only film that's managed to make me cry. And by cry I mean scream like a terrified little thing who's just seen the horrors of http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i147/zukan/font/horror.gif! :eek:
After that I couldn't step inside theaters for years without nearly soiling myself. :laughing:

I hope they don't have a horrible witch in the Princess and the Frog.

IzzyS

05-11-2009, 08:44 PM

Haha, I think I was 4 when I saw Snow white in theaters. It's the only film that's managed to make me cry. And by cry I mean scream like a terrified little thing who's just seen the horrors of http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i147/zukan/font/horror.gif! :eek:
After that I couldn't step inside theaters for years without nearly soiling myself. :laughing:

I hope they don't have a horrible witch in the Princess and the Frog.
just a witch doctor

jeremyhopkins

05-11-2009, 11:57 PM

just a witch doctor
The two best things I've heard so far about the movie have been the witch doctor and Eric's alligator character who's suppose to have an amazing musical sequence. I'm not much of song and dance kind of guy so I'm disappointed in seeing a return to musicals. That is a personal preference though and I can set it aside to see this film. As for the movie poster, well, honestly very rarely is a poster a good way to judge a film.

Nice to see the support and I'm sure the crew will appreciate it since they'll most likely be laid off for a little while (http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2009/05/disney-stroll.html) :(

WillW

05-12-2009, 01:05 AM

The two best things I've heard so far about the movie have been the witch doctor and Eric's alligator character who's suppose to have an amazing musical sequence. I'm not much of song and dance kind of guy so I'm disappointed in seeing a return to musicals. That is a personal preference though and I can set it aside to see this film. As for the movie poster, well, honestly very rarely is a poster a good way to judge a film.

Nice to see the support and I'm sure the crew will appreciate it since they'll most likely be laid off for a little while (http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2009/05/disney-stroll.html) :(

Thats sorta how I feel about musicals, when movie characters start to sing I usually hit the mute button haha.

IzzyS

05-12-2009, 02:20 AM

haha, d'oh. I'm the exact opposite, I'm a total sucker for musicals and I almost always fall in love with the music

Hana

05-12-2009, 02:39 AM

Haha me too Izzy :D I always find myself singing along to them (when I'm by myself). They're the funnest part of the movie sometimes except for maybe in some of the sequels where they make me cringe.

jeremyhopkins

05-12-2009, 03:28 AM

My issue with songs in the past is that they tend to pull away from the plot or change the tone too quickly. It can change or potentially ruin a threatening villain. I don't mind background music that reinforces the mood and that can have vocals. It just feels to me unless the story is going to meander like Jungle Book and just be about entertainment, that songs are going to get in the way somewhere. Though I think many people feel the way you do, I know my girlfriend does, and will be glad to see a Disney musical.

lavallelee

05-12-2009, 03:34 AM

zanekohler

05-12-2009, 09:08 AM

Yesturday i watched all the special features on The Little Mermaid and they said it was made as if it was a musical. A few of the main people they hired were from broadway.

Also that Ursula was basically a broadway actor in a way. It's funny but first I watched the special features then the movie. So I noticed alot while watching it, from what they talked about. :)
Yeah I have been watching a lot of my animated dvd's that way as well. I think it works better. Like you mentioned you are aware of it as it is playing in the film.

I am not a huge musical fan for exactly what is mentioned above. On more than one occasion when I am fully immersed into the film then the song starts and am reminded I am watching a film. I think jeremyhopkins nailed it when calling it a pacing issue.

In most of the films it has never been a breaker for me, just some down time in the film.

Regan

05-12-2009, 10:43 AM

I'm a Broadway nut, so I usually like songs in animation. I even sort of want to see Shrek the Musical. :o But mostly just because Sutton Foster is in it.

RyokoJesse

05-12-2009, 02:10 PM

I'm shocked that more of you guys don't like animated musicals! I always thought of it as common sense that the musical quality was part of the magic. All of the great classics are musicals. I think the music is part of if not most of what drives the story and characters home and makes it unforgettable.

It's a little OT, but for those of you who feel music takes away from the movie, is there any animated film that is not a musical that you feel is a good example of being better than an animated film that is a musical? I can't think of one example...

Snapai

05-12-2009, 02:39 PM

What about Lilo and Stitch? I'm not sure if it counted as a musical - all of the songs in it were montages with background music - not character performances!

But it also proves your point about the music helping the magic. I don't think it's a coincidence that there are so many musicians in animation, y'know?

I think the best songs in the "musical" animated features are the ones where it's not just a character randomly spouting off into song - it's a combination of a main character giving a performance - a monologue, say - and a musical montage.

It seems like they work best in places where you have a performer and an audience, in the narrative.

Regan

05-12-2009, 02:40 PM

Disney should get Stephen Sondheim to write some lyrics. :laughing:

jeremyhopkins

05-12-2009, 02:51 PM

I always thought of it as common sense that the musical quality was part of the magic.
That's a good point RyokoJesse and yes animation and music do go together well. That doesn't mean the characters have to break the story and go into song or sing an 'I want' song. Very seldom have I seen a musical that doesn't break the pacing of the film. Sorry to the folks that worked on Mulan, it's a beautiful film and I admire the artistry, but switching gears from Shan yu to Eddy Murphy's antics, to lead male character singing 'be a man'; it makes the movie feel schizophrenic. Pick something, drama, comedy, musical but mish- mashing all of them together waters down the film. Personally I enjoyed Shan yu and the sequence where Mulan cuts her hair. So I would've said go for a drama and the next movie could be a musical comedy.

All of the great classics are musicals.
Perhaps, Bambi teeters on the edge since most of it is influenced by score rather than by Broadway musical. Those moments, I feel, are strongest. The key word being, 'I feel' since this is personal and everyone will have different feelings. Some things are difficult to discuss because they are opinionated and while I understand others sentiments towards carrying on the legacy of animated musicals, I think some things are best left in the past. Though with any luck we'll be seeing more hand drawn animated films that can experiment with many different genres. Since Princess and the frog is suppose to be a director driven movie and if this is what Ron & John want to make, they have my support. It's best to watch it and decide.. who knows, maybe I'll be eating my words.

jeremyhopkins

05-12-2009, 03:00 PM

I'd like to add that one of the most powerful moments in animation for me is the lead up to where Giant is destroyed by the bomb in Iron Giant. Those moments where Giant is saying goodbye to Hogarth are so powerful and require no music. If he had broken out in song, the sincerity of the moment would've been lost. Same with the Incredibles where Bob tells his wife that he's not strong enough to lose her. Brad pulled music away from that moment as well and I love it. He just allowed the acting to carry the scene.. wow!

Also try to imagine Citizen Kane as a musical... wouldn't work. It's best left to singing in the rain which works brilliantly. Anyways..

WillW

05-12-2009, 03:10 PM

I think the best songs in the "musical" animated features are the ones where it's not just a character randomly spouting off into song - it's a combination of a main character giving a performance - a monologue, say - and a musical montage.

Agreed, I think this is a great example of one of those tunes,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRO-M4XyAbM

zanekohler

05-12-2009, 03:16 PM

That's a good point RyokoJesse and yes animation and music do go together well. That doesn't mean the characters have to break the story and go into song or sing an 'I want' song. Very seldom have I seen a musical that doesn't break the pacing of the film. Sorry to the folks that worked on Mulan, it's a beautiful film and I admire the artistry, but switching gears from Shan yu to Eddy Murphy's antics, to lead male character singing 'be a man'; it makes the movie feel schizophrenic. Pick something, drama, comedy, musical but mish- mashing all of them together waters down the film. Personally I enjoyed Shan yu and the sequence where Mulan cuts her hair. So I would've said go for a drama and the next movie could be a musical comedy.

Perhaps, Bambi teeters on the edge since most of it is influenced by score rather than by Broadway musical. Those moments, I feel, are strongest. The key word being, 'I feel' since this is personal and everyone will have different feelings. Some things are difficult to discuss because they are opinionated and while I understand others sentiments towards carrying on the legacy of animated musicals, I think some things are best left in the past. Though with any luck we'll be seeing more hand drawn animated films that can experiment with many different genres. Since Princess and the frog is suppose to be a director driven movie and if this is what Ron & John want to make, they have my support. It's best to watch it and decide.. who knows, maybe I'll be eating my words.

Couldn't have said it better. LOL love the "i want song" wording.

I have to add it's not that I don't like the songs either. Disney has had some amazing music. Great songs. But in the films I found my self sort of waiting for it to be over. Maybe the fact that I am not a huge musical fan makes me lean this direction a bit more.

Regardless of pacing the music direction of this film looks like it will be interesting for sure.

I think being a very music oriented city might allow them to place songs in more appropriately?

RyokoJesse

05-12-2009, 04:25 PM

What about Lilo and Stitch? I'm not sure if it counted as a musical - all of the songs in it were montages with background music - not character performances!

Lilo and Stitch was a fun movie, beautiful and heart-warming, but was it as strong as The Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, The Little Mermaid, Pinocchio, or Snow White?

I think the best songs in the "musical" animated features are the ones where it's not just a character randomly spouting off into song - it's a combination of a main character giving a performance - a monologue, say - and a musical montage.

I think so, too. I think there are a lot of movies that don't do it as well as they could, in which case I can see how singing may feel like it ruins the pacing or causes the viewer to realize they're watching a movie. At the same time, I feel that the successful employment of musical numbers is overwhelmingly worth it. In Aladdin, when he begins "A Whole New World", I never feel a hiccup in attention. In fact, I am more completely enraptured because of the music.

Despite my strong opinion, though, I know this is only my feeling and that my own words can ring true the other way around - I haven't seen a real blow-me-away feature-length animated film yet that isn't a musical, so my point of view, based on my experience, is biased. Maybe I'm a terrible judge of what's good, hahaha! :) All in all, I didn't mean to be rude, I just feel so strongly that the lack of musicals in the animation industry contributes to its decline. To me, it cheapens the magic just that much more, when we should be doing everything we can do bring back the Golden Age.

jeremyhopkins

05-12-2009, 08:24 PM

Yes, I think Lilo and Stitch breaks from the mold in a very unique way. If you're looking for an emotional moment, Jesse's song from TS2 is very powerful and show's the beauty of an animated montage that progresses the story and is entertaining.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px0j1EHF8Y0

There comes a point when we have to agree to disagree. I can't impose my taste on someone else; I can only give reasons and opinions based on experienced and knowledge. Diversity is a good thing and what works for some won't work for another. Hopefully by sharing, I've helped give the opposite perspective a voice and reasoning showing that we aren't lacking in common sense - we just enjoy film in different ways.

Mithmeoi

05-12-2009, 10:08 PM

I'm picky on musicals, most live action ones I won't bother to sit through, just too much darn singing! But the animated ones, well theater released films that is, are usually pretty good with their balance of talk and songs. Lion King, Hunchback, Beauty and the Beast, and all of those big films had great songs in them that really helped with the feeling. Though I don't think singing is necessary to make a really strong emotional scene.
Sometimes though they go overboard with songs in the movies too or come up with bad ones like LKII "Upendi" or Pocahontas "Savages" and pretty much all the DTV songs I dislike. Once in a blue moon I'll hear one that catches my attention but those are rare.

As someone already said Lilo and Stitch is a good example of no singing, Treasure Planet was the same way with the music. The score carried a lot of the emotion, and singing in that movie would have ruined it in my opinion. Atlantis also had no singing in it, but I don't think it was one of the weaker films Disney came out with. Balto, Land Before Time, and didn't Secret of NIMH only have one song that was more in the background? Anyways I found all of those to be really great in conveying emotion, and both Balto and LBT were very emotional without all the singing.

WillW

05-13-2009, 07:07 AM

did road to eldorado have any singing in it? I cant remember :C

Mithmeoi

05-13-2009, 11:05 AM

It did have a couple songs. Though now I'm thinking another good movie that didn't have singing was Sinbad, well I thought it was good. XD Same with Spirit. :P

IzzyS

05-13-2009, 11:16 AM

funny, all three movies. Spirit, Sinbad, and El Dorado. are all Dreamworks :)

Spirit did have sung music, but it went with the movie. horses can't sing, silly. El Dorado also did have musical moments, but like Spirit, it kinda went smoothly with whatever was going on at the time.

zanekohler

05-13-2009, 11:18 AM

Although Spirit had the power of a few Bryan Adams in the background. :D

IzzyS

05-13-2009, 11:26 AM

Although Spirit had the power of a few Bryan Adams in the background. :D
yep, that's what I was refering to. loved that music so much

zanekohler

05-13-2009, 12:05 PM

yep, that's what I was refering to. loved that music so much

It was some good music. You slipped your post in before I did ;)

Alexandra Poston

05-13-2009, 12:47 PM

did road to eldorado have any singing in it? I cant remember :C

Yup, Elton John, dude. They even animated a short music video of an El Dorado style Elton John singing one of the songs from the movie on the special features of the DVD. So much happpy

RyokoJesse

05-14-2009, 07:35 AM

Balto, Land Before Time, and didn't Secret of NIMH only have one song that was more in the background? Anyways I found all of those to be really great in conveying emotion, and both Balto and LBT were very emotional without all the singing.

Ohh, Balto! Now that's a movie that I found just as powerful as the others, but wasn't a musical. Thank you for mentioning it! That's one of my very favorites.

Yes, I think Lilo and Stitch breaks from the mold in a very unique way. If you're looking for an emotional moment, Jesse's song from TS2 is very powerful and show's the beauty of an animated montage that progresses the story and is entertaining.

That was a great montage! I'm glad you mentioned it as well. I wasn't blown away overall by TS2 (though I enjoyed it), but that song and Jesse's story has stayed in memory for years.

There comes a point when we have to agree to disagree. I can't impose my taste on someone else; I can only give reasons and opinions based on experienced and knowledge. Diversity is a good thing and what works for some won't work for another. Hopefully by sharing, I've helped give the opposite perspective a voice and reasoning showing that we aren't lacking in common sense - we just enjoy film in different ways.

Yeah, I'm okay to agree to disagree, but I'm glad I kept arguing back because you guys have brought up examples and made points that have made me change my mind and loosen my grip on the concept of animated musicals, haha. In actuality, I think you sort of "won". :)

Yup, Elton John, dude. They even animated a short music video of an El Dorado style Elton John singing one of the songs from the movie on the special features of the DVD. So much happpy

Ohh, that sounds awesome! I'm going to look that up ASAP. I love love loved El Dorado (and again, there was no singing along, just montages! golly...). I think what really made it for me were the characters. Miguel and Tulio work off each other just so damn well. I feel like they just wrote the story just by being themselves, as if the writers didn't even have any work to do! Which, I think, is probably a sign that they did their work very very well. :)

Rodney

07-18-2009, 10:43 PM

I may have missed it but I see that Vera Lanpher is an animator on 'The Princess and the Frog'. She started out with Don and crew.

Check out this quote from a John Cawley interview:

It was the training ground for me. I knew nothing about animation, but I went to the garage. Don, John and Gary said, 'Follow us', an I began to learn."

LMR70

07-19-2009, 01:20 PM

did you guys see this featurette about Mark Henn?

http://www.awntv.com/videos/princess-and-the-animator-featurette

Rodney

07-19-2009, 05:42 PM

did you guys see this featurette about Mark Henn?

http://www.awntv.com/videos/princess...tor-featurette

Sure did!
I love those looks behind the scenes.
I can never get enough of them. :)

Which reminds me.
I've read in several places that Don and crew taped quite a few videos during the making of 'Banjo the Woodpile Cat'.
Not sure where they are now, what their condition or if they even exist but boy I'd love to see them!

wolfsymphony

07-24-2009, 08:32 PM

Not sure if this has been posted before but some of you guys might appreciate seeing this:) http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9ybud_the-princess-and-the-frog-exclusive_shortfilms

arif

07-24-2009, 10:20 PM

Not sure if this has been posted before but some of you guys might appreciate seeing this:) http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9ybud_the-princess-and-the-frog-exclusive_shortfilms

Hia Wolf...

wonderful link,,,wow...seeing the line test before the movie released?? wow...it is really nice..thanks for sharing...

jeremyhopkins

07-25-2009, 01:32 AM

Not sure if this has been posted before but some of you guys might appreciate seeing thishttp://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9y...ive_shortfilms
Looks like Eric G and Bruce Smith are stealing the show. Andreas' Mamma Odie is a hoot too. Anyone know who supervised the firefly?

lavallelee

07-25-2009, 03:42 AM

i really can't wait

i plan on going to this movie many times to help it in the box office

more 2d!

DNethery

07-25-2009, 04:27 AM

Anyone know who supervised the firefly?

Mike Surrey.

Rodney

07-25-2009, 07:07 AM

Thanks for posting that link!

What a treat. :)
I'd be a happy camper to watch the entire film in pencil test.

arif

07-25-2009, 07:09 AM

i can`t wait to see that movie..i downloaded the trailer 1 month ago...and amazed that 2d is coming back......but, i can`t help the movie to seeing twice for it`s box office success(kinjo is planning something like that,i appreciate it))...this movie won`t release in Bangladesh...so, i have to wait when it will be uploaded in torrentz site......:(

arif

07-25-2009, 07:12 AM

Thanks for posting that link!

What a treat. :)
I'd be a happy camper to watch the entire film in pencil test.

i like the extra features always....making the movie..line tests...i like rodney`s idea...:laughing:

Rodney

07-25-2009, 07:16 AM

i like the extra features always....making the movie..line tests...i like rodney`s idea...

Hey... it'd save them a lot of time and money finishing the film and making it look all nice and pretty. Hehe. ;)

dchilders89

07-25-2009, 08:22 AM

jeremyhopkins

07-26-2009, 08:33 AM

Mike Surrey.
Thanks David. Very nice work!

LordDirk

07-27-2009, 02:00 AM

You know I'll be seeing it. If anyone is on the fence about seeing this, then remind yourself of who is working on this piece. Many of the old great Disney animators have been working non stop on this, and as a result it has some of the best animation I've seen in a feature. Also with the Pixar Disney relationship going on, the story department has had allot of success, in my opinion at least.

I recommend any and all take the chance to see this film.

lavallelee

07-27-2009, 04:27 AM

I will, a few times. I hear its going to be 3d so Ill watch both versions.

BlackEssence

08-18-2009, 07:12 AM

Hi, Everyone! New to the boards of my favorite animator, Don Bluth! So, let me get right to the point of my post. As you can tell, its about the new 2d film "The Princess And The Frog". I have read and totally agree with Don with his feelings on bringing back 2d.

Now, I will admit, I do like CG....*ducks from frying pencils*. However, My love will always be 2d. Thats what I have always bought along with the movies made by Don. Disney movies and Don's movies. lol. But, what I really want bring forth, and I want to make clear, I am NOT trying to step on toes or cause trouble. I just want to be honest and ask and honest, genuine, question about your thoughts and Don's thoughts.

As you know, the princess and the frog will showcase its FIRST black princess. I...in all honesty, feel so proud of this as I am an african american girl. I have looked up to the princesses of Disney for the longest time. Preferably, Pocahontas, Belle, Snow White, Ariel, and Mulan. But, I would be lying to you all if I said that I felt that I was capable of being a princess. That I could fall inlove with a handsome prince. Since Disney was created, that map was not drawn out for little black girls like me to aspire to be princesses or princess-like. I honestly feel that this movie was LONG overdue...but then again, I feel that it couldnt have happen on a more historical year. With our president and everything. With the death of Michael Jackson. And now, with the year ending with what I believe will be a new opportunity for young black girls who are still young and are being born. They can legitimately dream about being a princess.

I know that Don has worked with Disney before, so Don, let me ask you this, what are you thoughts about Disney finally unveiling its first black princess? What does it mean to you? Because for me, Disney really doesnt know how much of an impact that is going to have. This means...alot to me. It means a WHOLE lot to know that I can finally look at Princess Tiana...and say, thats me. She has dimples just like I do. She has a big pretty smile just like do. Shes a princess. Royalty. A real princess.

This can be answered by others as well. Again, it wasnt my intentioned to step on toes, I just wanted to know other's genuine thoughts.

Thank you guys.

AJartist

08-19-2009, 12:11 AM

Looks like the only way 2d can survive is to keep churning out stories in which a princess is the protagonist. That's what people will accept/expect.

LordDirk

08-19-2009, 12:31 AM

What makes you say that?

BlackEssence

08-19-2009, 01:25 AM

Looks like the only way 2d can survive is to keep churning out stories in which a princess is the protagonist. That's what people will accept/expect.

Well, I can't agree with that fully, babe. I LOVE when a man is the protagonist. I would love a story where the guy, much like "Aladdin" is the protagonist and he marries into a rich family. I never could understand why Jasmine got all the glory when the movie was more about Aladdin.

But, this mold of adding a black princess was long overdue and had to be done. Now, in way, its complete. I just hope that disness puts her face on the cover of things and pushes her for a great market like they do the rest of the princess. Heck, I think the only princess who would TRULY welcome Princess Tiana would be Cinderella and Snow White.

AJartist

08-19-2009, 06:25 PM

Well, look at the Male protagonist that have been denied by the audience. Pinnochio, Bambi, Jim Hawkins and Dirk. People become surprised when They learned that Pinnoch and Bambi were flops. Disney himself said that after fantasia, he came to terms to what people really want....a heroine protagonist whose in trouble and is aided by her little friends. This is one of the things that stopped him from being innovative. HOwever, I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing.

A wise poet once said...."Is it for singing the same song that the lark is forever admired?"

somekind of census was taken years ago on the primary audience of animated films, and it was WOMEN!!

That may be one reason for the sad performance of Treasure Island and Titan A.E. Treasure could have been a little bit better; but Titan was great!! it just came at the time when CG was the rage, and the traditional stuff was marketed poorley and still associated with....singing princesesses. Of course there are exceptions (RARE) exceptions like brother bear and Mowgli. I was speaking with my girlfriend some time ago that the Jungle book is one of the only succesful "GUY" disney movies out there. But if Jungle book were being made today, would it be easy to sell to execs? Sure, they'd see the potential of all the animal toys they can sell, but theres no doubt they would have stressed that the villiage girl appear more throught the movie. Even Walt Disney wasn't that dumb.
-a.j.

Moneyguns

08-20-2009, 11:35 AM

AJartist

08-20-2009, 05:34 PM

OOps mentioned Dirk in the above message. I meant to write "kael" from titan A.E. :)

Don Bluth

08-25-2009, 10:08 AM

It was probably to save money and time. I can't exactly imagine dance sequences to be easy. Many of the copies are in Robin Hood which was the first movie to come out after Walt's death so it may have also been a security thing?

Sorry Hana, but Robin Hood was not the first movie to come out after Walt's death. Walt Died in the middle of the making of Jungle Book. Jungle Book was the first movie to be release after Walt's death. I just couldn't let that one go. Have a nice anyway.

crazychillakid

09-02-2009, 12:59 PM

When I was getting my teeth done at the Dentist, I was talking to my hygenist, and she talked about her daughters friend who did an internship with Disney this Summer. I guess this is supposed to be an awesome movie, according to him, he got to see some of it. I've got my fingers crossed.

lavallelee

09-05-2009, 10:31 AM

At the animation academy at hollywood studios in orlando

they have all kinds of stuff about princess and the frog

storyboards, character sketches and even sculptures
i should take a picture next time im there

zanekohler

09-08-2009, 04:18 PM

Here is a short clip floating around kind of cool to see....
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RzeJnBPaayE&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0xe1600f&color2=0xfebd01"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RzeJnBPaayE&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0xe1600f&color2=0xfebd01" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

jeremyhopkins

09-08-2009, 11:50 PM

New trailer here too:
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1809838280/trailer

Nice work and hope all who enjoy musicals find some entertainment in this new trailer as well.

lavallelee

09-09-2009, 03:52 AM

Mithmeoi

09-09-2009, 07:41 AM

I'm loving the animation already. :) I hope the story and music is just as good. :D

TimothyB

10-13-2009, 11:27 PM

Someone posted a link in their journal to the first 5 minutes to Disney's new film, The Princess and the Frog. But it's not just the finished film, but a cool work in progress,

Many scenes are B&W, and even better, early rough pencil work by the animators (especially near the last half)

http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/princess-and-the-frog/first-5-minutes

jeremyhopkins

10-14-2009, 12:08 PM

Thanks for sharing Brian but I'm not sure what the status is of this preview.. it seems like it's still floating around the internet but it has been pulled in other places. If it's not suppose to be online, someone please let the mods or admins know. Thanks!

TimothyB

10-14-2009, 01:45 PM

Just picked up Snow White on Blu-ray and they have this same 5 minute sneak peak as a bonus on the disc. Don't know how official online versions of it are.

OriginalGagBonkers

10-16-2009, 11:00 AM

Although I am excited about this movie, I keep hearing stuff about the movie being rated PG for voodoo magic.

arif

10-16-2009, 11:20 PM

Dont know if somebody already put the links here,,,

But, seeing the extra features is always exiting...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xe8RnnMkGM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=912Hh5UIt-E&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y3-Y6bMh0M&feature=related

TimothyB

10-17-2009, 12:08 AM

Thanks, and there's more extras:

The Princess and the Frog The Princess and the Animator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LA8acrJ2ww&NR=1

Well, I suppose these might have been posted before, so here's the official YouTube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/princessandthefrog#p/u

LaurenWilsonArt

10-17-2009, 08:10 AM

Thanks for those links, I am so excited about this film! Going to see it at least twice in theaters to help support the industry any way I can.

Moneyguns

10-18-2009, 06:58 PM

arif

10-19-2009, 12:37 AM

Dosen't anyone believe in checking movie reviews before seeing movies anymore?:( I meen, what if you all go see it and it stinks? I don't think movies can be judged by there previews now days.:confused:

yea .... .i think,,,,,,.i understood what are you trying to say...here is main focus is 2d is coming back....Disney has planned to create more hand drawn 2d feature films.....that is why, all are exited to see the review...hahahhahaha.....

jeremyhopkins

10-19-2009, 12:59 AM

Dosen't anyone believe in checking movie reviews before seeing movies anymore? I meen, what if you all go see it and it stinks? I don't think movies can be judged by there previews now days.
Yep, it's part of the gamble. If you're worried about quality, maybe wait till it's in cheap theatres and watch a matinee. I think many traditional animation fans are hungry for films and are willing to take chances.

LaurenWilsonArt

10-19-2009, 08:36 AM

Dosen't anyone believe in checking movie reviews before seeing movies anymore?:( I meen, what if you all go see it and it stinks? I don't think movies can be judged by there previews now days.:confused:

Hey man, even if it stinks, the better this movie does, the more likely 2D animation will be revived. :) So I'm willing to put at least $10 to that cause.

Don Bluth

10-19-2009, 12:47 PM

The bottom line is, the box office receipts. If it turns a sufficient profit to warrant the investment in production and distribution, which will be a figure in the millions, then, it will advance the cause of reviving classical animation. In my opinion, the artistic success of a movie, and the financial success of a movie, are two different things. To be artistically successful, this film must offer something fresh and outside of the Disney formula. To be financially successful, it must simply recoup with a profit that will rival the current 3D productions.

Alexandra Poston

10-20-2009, 05:45 AM

It frustrates me that there are such high expectations for a successful animated feature- and that something artistically brilliant won't necessarily be recognized by the general public enough to finance future films. Fantasia (Disney,I know), was absolutely beautiful - but when it first came out it was such a flop, Walt didn't even want to talk about it.

Just watching the in-progress reel for the Princess and the Frog got me drooling though. Regardless or not of whether the Princess and the Frog ends up paving my future in 2D animation, I can hardly wait to get to Burbank next month and gobble it up.

I've heard it announced that the next theatrical 2D feature release from Disney will be another Winnie the Pooh movie. Not too exciting, but then again, at least the drawings are gradually coming back to the big screen. It is the right time for us to be in animation right now.

arif

10-20-2009, 06:26 AM

I've heard it announced that the next theatrical 2D feature release from Disney will be another Winnie the Pooh movie. Not too exciting, but then again, at least the drawings are gradually coming back to the big screen. It is the right time for us to be in animation right now.

if the next film would be The winnie and the Pooh....omm....i am afraid this film not be exited what i want to see....but, i agree with you that this is the right time to be in animation right now....The Black shadow is passing away..and 2D is coming back with new generation from the various places of Earth.....i think, Mr. Bluth should attempt for his 13 th number film...which would be the great pillar with the very new generation of 2d feature film.....

Regards,

Arif:)

jtq3

10-20-2009, 02:18 PM

There are many great things going on in the world of 2D animation if you're willing to find them. Check out the student films on Cartoon Brew or Nick Cross's blog. Independent animators creating fascinating 2D animation.

The computer processing power and software available today is extraordinary. In this day and age, there are no limits to what an artist or group of artists can accomplish on their desktop computer. If you want 2D animation, you should create some.

I have to admit I get tired of the whiney complaints about the big studios abandonment of 2D animation. Big studios are corporations and their intention is to make money. Animation is a time consuming, labor intensive and expensive art form. If the studios can't make back their investment on the production, it's obvious they can't sustain that business plan. Disney can't please everybody. I'm looking forward to both Princess and the Frog and Winnie the Pooh. The Disney Pooh shorts from the '60's are still some of my favorites (from the stories to the voice characterization to the incredible animation). The new Pooh feature will be created in the spirit of those films and will return to the original AA Milne text for inspiration.

Don't dismiss it before you've seen it. If you appreciate the art form, you should support it. If you don't appreciate the content, I suggest you take a closer and more careful look at the Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh.

jeremyhopkins

10-20-2009, 05:29 PM

Disney can't please everybody. I'm looking forward to both Princess and the Frog and Winnie the Pooh. The Disney Pooh shorts from the '60's are still some of my favorites (from the stories to the voice characterization to the incredible animation). The new Pooh feature will be created in the spirit of those films and will return to the original AA Milne text for inspiration.
I agree. In general I understand the aversion to sequels because audiences want to see something new and filmmakers want the challenge of giving them something unique. Pooh is one of those timeless characters and I think it's really nice to give this generation of animators a chance at making something special. Also maybe it would provide Disney publishing with an opportunity to pursue new Pooh book collections too.

segun

11-01-2009, 02:17 PM

Hi guys,
official concept art from Disney's "The Princess and the Frog" can be found at http://disney.go.com/disneypictures/princessandthefrog/index_full.html
click on "Art Of" on the menu bar.
The interface for the art of section is a little tacky, but there's some great art in there.
cheers

segun

11-01-2009, 02:34 PM

Eric Goldberg (Supervising Animator) draws Louis from Disney's "The Princess and the Frog"
http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/princess-and-the-frog/drawing-louis

Thanks Aaron (http://lineboil.com/2009/10/eric-goldberg-draws-louis-from-new-disney-film/)</a> for exposing this.

zanekohler

11-18-2009, 09:44 PM

Speaking of Eric Goldberg, He did a webinar via Animation Mentor. He talked a little bit about Louis but obviously could not say too much. He does look like an interesting character.

Also this is complete speculation on my part along with my fingers crossed... but the CTN Expo has a secret screening on saturday. The evening is also sponsored by Disney...hmmmmm....maybe? ;) only time will tell.

roxyryoko

11-23-2009, 08:21 PM

zanekohler

11-24-2009, 06:11 AM

One of the older students at my school interned at Disney this summer and pretty much saw the entire movie. He said it's going to be very good. : )

The Comic Con preview of it was also very good. It was a song sequence. It made me so happy to see 2D animation and musical combine again!

I'm going to the Los Angeles event for this movie on the 5th of December! So excited!

That is cool to hear! I will be going on the 8th of December to check it out! You will have to let me know how it is and if there is any must see/do things at the event?

LordDirk

11-25-2009, 12:08 AM

One of the older students at my school interned at Disney this summer and pretty much saw the entire movie. He said it's going to be very good. : )

The Comic Con preview of it was also very good. It was a song sequence. It made me so happy to see 2D animation and musical combine again!

I'm going to the Los Angeles event for this movie on the 5th of December! So excited!

Awesome, I interned at Disney over the summer and did the very same thing, who was this student? I bet I know them :)

roxyryoko

11-25-2009, 12:57 AM

Awesome, I interned at Disney over the summer and did the very same thing, who was this student? I bet I know them :)

His name is Eric Stirpe.

And I'll be sure to write a little review about the movie (without plot spoils!) when I see it.

jeremyhopkins

11-28-2009, 12:02 AM

I've seen it and it's very good! Is it a perfect movie? Well... in my opinion, no, there are issues but it's an overall solid, entertaining film with beautiful art design and excellent animation of the villain, Mama Odie, and Louis. Some of the musical numbers are stunning especially the 'Almost There' sequence. Everyone who worked on the film can feel proud of their hard work and my fingers are crossed for a successful opening in December!

Rodney

11-28-2009, 12:53 AM

Is it a perfect movie? Well... in my opinion, no, there are issues

If you don't think it would ruin the viewing experience for others it'd be great to hear more of your thoughts here. I say this not as an approach to the obvious negativism that could be drawn from revealing flaws in the film but rather what can be learned.

Looking forward to seeing the movie. :)

jeremyhopkins

11-28-2009, 01:30 AM

My major concern is the relationship arc between Tiana and Naveen. I can't say too much without spoiling the film but in general I felt their arc was a bit too rushed. Perhaps it's best to wait till after the film opens nation wide to discuss my concerns in detail. I agree with your sentiments and wish for a respectful conversation about our PatF film experiences. Thanks for asking!

Rodney

11-28-2009, 07:51 AM

Perhaps it's best to wait till after the film opens nation wide to discuss my concerns in detail.

I see your point and agree.
I'll look forward to the discussion after release.

From the previews and excerpts released it looks like its going to be a great addition to the Disney classics.

The technical aspects of the production also intrigue me.

madanimator

11-28-2009, 10:34 AM

For some days I follow the comments about this film on Cartoon Brew. And I'm afraid most of them are not satisfied with the film.
Here's the link: http://www.cartoonbrew.com/disney/the-princess-and-the-frog-talkback.html#comments
Well, I'll wait till I've seen the movie by myself and then build my own opinion. I just can't give up the hope that this movie could safe 2D animation. But all in all the future for 2D looks still cloudy....

jeremyhopkins

11-28-2009, 10:56 AM

Some of those cartoon brew comments are true but others are a bit harsh. I think we all had extremely high expectations which is unfair as well. The audience was satisfied with the screening and they clapped at the end. Frog has a few story warts but it's a good start for a new collection of hand drawn features at Disney. It felt like a film where everyone did their best and that's always encouraging.
This comment summed it up best:
...everyone laughed at the jokes, got the message and enjoyed the songs. In fact, some were clapping along to the songs, and the kids that were there loved it.

AaronMocksing

11-28-2009, 11:12 AM

So it wasn't too bad, eh? :) Awesome. I can't wait to check it out. This is the Disney I remember. XD

Rodney

11-29-2009, 12:58 PM

And I'm afraid most of them are not satisfied with the film.

There are many reasons to round down but the Cartoon Brew crits of 'Princess' I've read appear to give more reasons to round up (and be optimistic) than the usual fare.

If you are expecting this movie to save hand drawn animation though, you might as well admit hand drawn animation is dead. While important, hand drawn animation doesn't rest on the fate of one movie. It never did.

Its time to refresh our perspective!
Whether you love 'The Princess and the Frog' or not the film should serve that need for refreshment well. Take away something positive from it, then go forth and excell.

jtq3

11-29-2009, 01:25 PM

Well said.

johncbeggs

11-29-2009, 01:29 PM

There are many reasons to round down but the Cartoon Brew crits of 'Princess' I've read appear to give more reasons to round up (and be optimistic) than the usual fare.

If you are expecting this movie to save hand drawn animation though, you might as well admit hand drawn animation is dead. While important, hand drawn animation doesn't rest on the fate of one movie. It never did.

Its time to refresh our perspective!
Whether you love 'The Princess and the Frog' or not the film should serve that need for refreshment well. Take away something positive from it, then go forth and excell.

Hand-Drawn animation will never die , its constantly being worked on here in this forum and everywhere else.

yes this film may not save hand-drawn animation but it marks the beginning of a newer generation of students trying to bring back that special quality

arif

11-29-2009, 06:22 PM

Hand-Drawn animation will never die , its constantly being worked on here in this forum and everywhere else.

yes this film may not save hand-drawn animation but it marks the beginning of a newer generation of students trying to bring back that special quality

i agree.....

OwenWelsh

11-30-2009, 10:27 AM

Cool little article on Eric Goldberg's styling of Louis.

http://colorfulanimationexpressions.blogspot.com/2009/11/goldberg-variations.html

AaronMocksing

11-30-2009, 12:08 PM

Seconded. ^^

jeremyhopkins

11-30-2009, 09:08 PM

That's a very good attitude to have when watching PatF. It's important to be honest about problems that exist but I think it's best to be supportive and encouraging. As students, what can we learn from this film and how can we apply that knowledge to our own work. We have to set aside studio differences and competition, open up, and try to make the best decisions that are right for our work while participating in a positive way and adding to the animation discussion for our peers. When I briefly spoke with John Musker at CTN expo, one aspect I admired most is how he spoke with me as a peer and a creative collaborator. Maybe his opinion changed when he peaked at my artwork but I appreciate the willingness to hear anyone no matter where they come from - literally or figuratively. This is a great change for animation and with the experienced and new talent they've assembled at Disney, there's no doubt in my mind that we're at the beginning of something very special.

Here's another article with John Lasseter speaking about the commitment to hand drawn films: http://www.awn.com/news/films/lasseter-talks-princess-and-frog-and-2d

joedorsey

11-30-2009, 09:37 PM

I feel that Disney is sticking it's toe in the water with the first two 2D animated features. They need solid numbers to get some momentum. I know the Princess thing has been done to death as well as Winnie The Pooh. But they've got alot on the line and I believe they need to play it safe (at least until the cash flow allows them to venture out).

I'm sure we'd all love to see the kind of risk taking that Walt did back in the day. But, at that time it was HIS studio and he called the shots. Disney Animation today is a whole different beast on a corporate level. Princess And The Frog doesn't need to save 2D animation (did it ever need saving?). But, it could at least have a good start financially to help get adventurous projects made in the future.

I was very disappointed to see the PATF trailer for the first time. It was like..."Oh great! Here we go again!" "More formula". Now I'm trying to be more positive and really want to see a future for Disney 2D Animation. The quality is there and the writing needs to be just as strong. Here's hopin'!

joedorsey

12-03-2009, 01:41 AM

Here's a little sneak peek...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSzyaKoFT18

AaronMocksing

12-03-2009, 01:54 AM

I look forward to maybe seeing some more 2D projects down the road should they choose to do so. ^^ I wouldn't mind a proper sequel, maybe.

jeremyhopkins

12-03-2009, 02:51 AM

Here's a little sneak peek...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSzyaKoFT18
Beautiful sequence and it's one of my favorites from the film!
If you like the design, check out Lorelay Bove's blog: http://lorelaybove.blogspot.com/

jeremyhopkins

12-03-2009, 03:35 AM

I'm sure we'd all love to see the kind of risk taking that Walt did back in the day. But, at that time it was HIS studio and he called the shots. Disney Animation today is a whole different beast on a corporate level. Princess And The Frog doesn't need to save 2D animation (did it ever need saving?). But, it could at least have a good start financially to help get adventurous projects made in the future.

I was very disappointed to see the PATF trailer for the first time. It was like..."Oh great! Here we go again!" "More formula". Now I'm trying to be more positive and really want to see a future for Disney 2D Animation. The quality is there and the writing needs to be just as strong. Here's hopin'
My advice is to see the film and then decide. The industry doesn't succeed or fail by one film alone and PatF should be viewed on its own merit; not with the added weight of saving or reinventing the industry. Besides that, there were some surprises, especially in the frog catching sequence, that caught me off guard.

johncbeggs

12-03-2009, 11:09 AM

So I advise us men to either see it with a woman around our arms or a small child :laughing:. that way we can keep our "Manly" persona in the theatres :laughing:

seriously though the crocodiles design is really cool and with great animation skills behind him this film can be very successful!

jeremyhopkins

12-03-2009, 01:06 PM

So I advise us man to either see it with a woman around our arms or a small child . that way we can keep our "Manly" persona in the theatres
Though you're kidding, ignorance is a real problem. Seeing it with my girlfriend was nice but it would've been just as enjoyable alone. Its not a typical princess movie and my manly ego wasn't hurt by viewing it either.

johncbeggs

12-03-2009, 01:58 PM

I was just joking!:, how was it ?

jeremyhopkins

12-04-2009, 04:17 AM

how was it ?
It's fun with great animation and beautiful design. You'll love Louis and the frog catchers.

fanimation

12-04-2009, 09:08 PM

I can't wait to take my daughter to see it! This will be the first Disney 2d animated film she will get to see on the big screen. I hope many more of these films come from Disney and Don Bluth and others in the future!!

zanekohler

12-05-2009, 12:37 PM

It's fun with great animation and beautiful design. You'll love Louis and the frog catchers.

Hey Jeremy,
I am going this Tuesday to see it. Other than the movie is there anything that is a must see/do at the PatF experience? It looks mostly geared for younger children. Sounds like they were going to have some of the animators on hand?

Thanks for your take and can't wait for the conversations once everyone has seen it!

arif

12-05-2009, 05:51 PM

I am going this Tuesday to see it.

has the movie released???

zanekohler

12-05-2009, 06:12 PM

I am going this Tuesday to see it.

has the movie released???
It has in New York and Los Angeles for a limited promotion release.

jeremyhopkins

12-05-2009, 06:28 PM

I am going this Tuesday to see it. Other than the movie is there anything that is a must see/do at the PatF experience? It looks mostly geared for younger children. Sounds like they were going to have some of the animators on hand?

Thanks for your take and can't wait for the conversations once everyone has seen it!

If you're at the Burbank show, make sure to sign up for the studio tour. Hyun-min will be at the New York show but I'm not sure which animator will be at the Burbank one.

has the movie released???
It opens on December 11th here.

zanekohler

12-05-2009, 11:34 PM

If you're at the Burbank show, make sure to sign up for the studio tour. Hyun-min will be at the New York show but I'm not sure which animator will be at the Burbank one.
.

Yeah I will be a Burbank. I will definitely do the studio tour! Thanks for the suggestion.

roxyryoko

12-06-2009, 09:52 AM

I just saw the limited promotion release and I loved the movie. I was so nostalgic watching. I saw so many children and I kept thinking how this is the first 2D movie they have seen in theaters! And I haven't seen one since I was there age.
The animation was beautiful! They had shading and sparkling fireflies. The characters, especially Naveen was amazing! Though I think the villain could have had more motivation. : / Tiana is not the typical Disney princess at all, and Naveen is a lot different than past heroes. There were also more dark themes in the film.

Diego

12-06-2009, 11:34 AM

wow! great finally the traditional animation COME BACKS!! YAHOOO, i really like this. this is a great steep for the animators.

well, the movie looks amazing and funny, i like the characters and their adventures its very .. how to say.. well u know u haveto see it!

zanekohler

12-09-2009, 11:05 AM

Finally saw it yesterday!
I did go on the Disney tour which was cool. It was funny how they skip over some history. Like how the Animators were moved from the old original building to the new one under the fantasia hat. Sort of skipped the fact they were put in Glendale in trailers and run down buildings for a few years :laughing: . But it is understandable.

The Animator on hand was Ruben Aquino. I got a chance to talk to him for a few minutes. He was very cool. We talked about the Disney animation hiring process as well as some random things on animation. Was a total thrill.

On a side note there were some young kids with pretty darn good drawings for their ages. I think we need to step it up a bit or we are going to have some steep competition in a few years ;)

**** talking about the film below. I am not going to post spoilers but would recommend not to read if you don't want to be influenced by reviews. Just highlight with your mouse to read.

I really liked it. The first half naturally was mostly character development and setting up the story. When I paused mid way to reflect I remember thinking not bad so far. As much as I try to not have any expectations, at this point I was thinking it was average. However by the end, all of the building up in the first half came together and paid off. For me personally the second half made it all worth while. Any doubts I had about the first half were gone. I even found myself unintentionally humming the songs after the movie. I don't think it is going to become the great single hope that will save the 2d industry. I do think it is a solid start in a series of films that will hopefully show to the world 2d is not going anywhere

jeremyhopkins

12-11-2009, 08:43 AM

Princess and the Frog opens nation wide today so if you've been waiting for a hand drawn disney feature, go check it out! Best wishes to all the staff on a fine film and, I believe, it will be a financially successful one as well.

zanekohler

12-11-2009, 10:36 AM

I wont mention anything until more people have seen it, but be on the look out for some easter eggs.

lavallelee

12-11-2009, 12:59 PM

WOW! I SAW IT!! YAY!

you could tell at the beginning the animators were dusting off some old cobwebs but still the movie was great! i plan on seeing it again this weekend to build its boxoffice numbers :cool:

wolfsymphony

12-11-2009, 01:47 PM

I can't see it for another month or so because it doesn't come out here until January.
I hate it, Australia is ALWAYS so slow with everything. Why do we always have to be last:(

arif

12-11-2009, 06:55 PM

I can't see it for another month or so because it doesn't come out here until January.
I hate it, Australia is ALWAYS so slow with everything. Why do we always have to be last:(

Friend ..relax......
This movie wont be released here in Bangladesh..so, i have to wait till the dvd releases.......think, my condition.....now, may be you feel happy that you are not too behind......:D:D

Regards,
Arif:)

joedorsey

12-12-2009, 01:43 PM

Saw it today with my kids. It was nice to see Disney animation on the big screen again. My son fell asleep around the end. Being thirteen he's not exactly the target audience. He and I are going to have a guys night of movie magic.

After being a part of this website it has made me appreciate all the work that goes into a fully animated feature. Lots of work.

macprofilms

12-12-2009, 04:07 PM

Finally!!!!
I have been anticipating this film for months now, and it was well worth the wait. The characters were well defined, the musical score was wonderfull. It carried the film along at a nice pace. They did not just break out in song. It was used to tell the story. I especially enjoyed the change in animation style during the musical number of Tiana at the down and out building. The animated human versions worked well with there frog versions. You could believe they were the same characters.
I very much enjoyed the darker side of the film. The shadow man was scarry, but not cruel or too far out there. There was a definite message being told as well, not preachy, but there.
I enjoyed the touch of death to one of the characters, they showed not all things are things turn out well (a bit of bambi). All in all well done, well done!!!

jeremyhopkins

12-12-2009, 05:32 PM

It looks like PatF made $7 million on Friday (http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=princessandthefrog.htm) which will probably give a weekend total of $21-27 million.

BUsketch81

12-12-2009, 06:45 PM

It looks like PatF made $7 million on Friday (http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=princessandthefrog.htm) which will probably give a weekend total of $21-27 million.

I'm no expert in box office figures, but is that good news for an animated feature?

segun

12-12-2009, 10:16 PM

I got to see the PATF last night, it was pretty good. I particularly enjoyed the work of Bruce Smith and his team on Dr. Facilier and Nik Ranieri and his team on Charlotte. I wish both characters had got a little more screen time.

The backgrounds were stellar, sometimes a little too saturated, but stellar none the less.

The PATF is a family film, and your manly egos will still be retained, it's not a "girly" movie. I got to the theater (downton San Francisco) a little early, so i was able to see most of the crowd, the theater was 75% full. The audience was made up of mostly families and teenagers. I was glad to see a couple of young African American girls dressed as princesses in the audience. There was also a strong presence of African Americans in the audience. Contrary to popular belief THE MOVIE IS NOT RACIST, it's easy to develop ideas about a film based on its promotional material, but i recommend seeing it in context (the actual movie) to justify your thoughts. The audience loved the movie, people laughed at funny moments, and they all clapped at the end of the movie. Judging by the audience's response to this movie, i think it will do well at the box office.

While i had a couple of problems with the film here and there, i'll keep my opinions to myself. The magic is still at Disney, and i hope they keep making more 2d animated features. I definitely recommend seeing it.

madanimator

12-13-2009, 03:49 AM

I saw the film yesterday and I'm hooked! I didn't expect such a great and wonderful movie! Behind me sat a little boy, who laughed from the beginning till the end of the movie! (except for the scary and sad scenes). It was so cute! And at the end, everybody applauded. I never experienced that at the end of a movie show before.
I love all the characters, they are well-defined and funny. I can't say, who I love the most. They are all wonderful!
A funny situation was, when my family heard that the dog was named 'Stella'. Because Stella is my sister's name who sat right next to me. So my family and me were the only ones who suddenly laughed when hearing that name while all the others didn't laugh.
The only thing I didn't like so much was, that to my mind, there were too many songs. But all in all, a beautiful film!
2D animation rocks!

arif

12-13-2009, 04:21 AM

Great to hear from all of you about the ~princess and the frog~ who has already watched it.....and all the reviews are so positives.....seems like..it is already a Disney Classic..so anxiously have been waiting here to see that how the movie goes on..... as we all know how important roll could be made by PATF for the coming back again 2d classical animation........
still have to wait to see the movie when dvd will release....:(:o:o

Regards,
Arif

joedorsey

12-13-2009, 10:18 PM

Looks like PATF made the 25 million mark for the weekend.

arif

12-13-2009, 11:40 PM

Looks like PATF made the 25 million mark for the weekend.

yes...just got the information from cnn.....is it going to be a big hit...??..i hope soooooooo

WillW

12-14-2009, 02:36 AM

I'm no expert in box office figures, but is that good news for an animated feature?

I think overall it has to make more then the budget cost ($105 million) and successful films seem to manage this within a month. I'm not sure what the best films to compare this too are so I just took a couple that came to mind, Shrek and WALL-E so far seem to have achieved much more in comparison during their opening weeks. I by no means claim I know fully how this system is read though, that's just how I've understood it.

AaronMocksing

12-14-2009, 05:09 AM

Isn't the new Alvin movie coming out on Christmas day this year? Looks like there might be some good competition when the two are neck to neck in the same theater. My place has them both lined up here in DP, so it's gonna be kinda iffy.

jeremyhopkins

12-15-2009, 08:58 AM

I'm no expert either but seems to have met expectations and came out number one at the box office. It's not a smash like the Pixar films (http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=up.htm) but it also almost has half the budget of other bigger budget CG titles. Bolt had similar numbers (http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=bolt.htm) last year at Thanksgiving, though Twilight was released at the same time, so considering PatF is sandwiched between New Moon and Avatar, it's done very well! It proves that there is an audience for hand drawn animation and that all forms of animation can coexist. Congratulations to the Disney crew! All your hard work paid off and it's only the beginning!

Wearedoomed

12-16-2009, 10:33 AM

Princess and the Frog looks like a true return to form for Disney. It looks like a great film and I'll hopefully catch it in the theater while I still can.

johncbeggs

12-17-2009, 12:14 PM

Ive heard that "princess and the frog" made not so much money! - but hopefully its a starting point for the new age of animators.

eezacque

12-18-2009, 06:53 AM

As long as people treat this movie as The Child of the Prophecy, The One movie that will save the future of traditional animation, it can only fail.

Simply spoken, it is just another movie...

jeremyhopkins

12-18-2009, 08:22 AM

As long as people treat this movie as The Child of the Prophecy, The One movie that will save the future of traditional animation, it can only fail.
I wouldn't say fail, let's just be fair. There were some crazy, unrealistic expectations by animation fans. Just go for a good time and forget about the business for an hour and half. Some may love it and others might not. You can't please everyone and as long as the filmmakers are happy with the end product, which they are, then it's a success in my book.

Rodney

12-18-2009, 12:03 PM

One important thing to remember about Disney classics is that many (most?) weren't considered runaway successes when they were released. It takes time to appreciate a classic.

Unfortunately I probably won't be able to see PatF in theaters (I sure wish I could) but looks like I'll have to wait to see it on DVD.

Have we all gotten to the point where we can't just enjoy these movies?

As much as I love delving into the art and what is going on behind the scenes it can take several viewings before I start to consider how the movie was created. Does anyone else just enjoy watching animated movies like me?

I consider it extremely important to understand how animated movies are made but I sense that if I ever get to the point where its all about the technical aspects or how popular the movie will be, my real love of animation will have vanished.

Its important that animated movies be successful financially but that can't be the true measure of success for 2D. From just the previews alone I can see PatF is a movie that will hold a lot of value for me.

zanekohler

12-18-2009, 12:45 PM

I think one thing that we as a society have trouble doing is viewing new Disney films for their own merit and not against the whole Disney legacy. Especially with this one because it is considered to be the "return". So already there is going to be a level of comparison against past films. Disney has set the bar high with it's history. I think we want to see it get raised every time. While this film may or may not raise the bar it certainly does not lower it. So best to forget all about bars and just see the film for what it is.

If the legacy is a curse when it is first released will definitely switch over time. like Rodney touched upon, I agree that decades from now on what ever latest format Disney is re-releasing it on it will be considered a classic.

zanekohler

12-18-2009, 01:00 PM

jeremyhopkins

12-19-2009, 04:06 PM

Also now that the film has been released I thought I would bring up one of the easter eggs...

This is not plot oriented but if you want to find it on your own don't read below....

Any one see the Homage to Frank Thomas...in the Firefly five band.
Frank was in a band called Firehouse Five. At the end when they were playing you can see Frank playing piano. Thought it was pretty cool.
Ron & John are on one of the Mardi Gras parade floats as well as a bunch of other cameos that I missed like Walt Disney, Eric Goldberg, some of the design staff and a few winks to previous films in posing & dialogue. Couldn't find the Wilhelm scream but it might be in there somewhere.

BUsketch81

12-19-2009, 05:02 PM

How about seeing a disney character in plain sight. When the title appears on screen, look to the right. You'll see a woman on a balcony shaking the dust out of her rug. Does that rug Look familiar?

jeremyhopkins

12-26-2009, 05:07 AM

Sorry for bringing up box office numbers again. Rodney is right, box office isn't everything yet it seems to be the key point we discuss to death. Maybe because numbers aren't subjective, it feels like a good source to validate our opinion. What is interesting is that PatF saw a increase in tickets over the past week which coincides with school holidays. Very seldom do features go up after a two week release but Princess has proven it has some legs. If people weren't interested, they wouldn't be seeing it regardless of the holidays: http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=princessandthefrog.htm

Rodney

12-26-2009, 08:47 AM

box office isn't everything yet it seems to be the key point we discuss to death.

I do want to be careful in my criticism of box office returns.
I think it is important... its just not ALL important.

When I think about Don Bluth history I can easily see the importance of box office. The numbers WILL effect someone's decision making process. A dismal return for tPatF would signal to some brain dead decision makers and investors that 'hand drawn' films had definitely lost their charm and profit potential.

There are a lot of moving pieces in this puzzle.
Box Office is one.

dentitov

01-01-2010, 07:21 PM

drawing prince from P&F

http://media.digisynd.com/AQAAAM2cg3u73urvLHrzd9yiCuon1xNn_____9m6Mvbq77iLrM xpxKBU_K91wdtX/play;frame=AQAAAPf8wFiN6EmoCADMm0d6XrUn1xNn_____3d aAmc9FIMmtukeuAccJye8F9qo/

johncbeggs

01-01-2010, 09:14 PM

drawing prince from P&F

http://media.digisynd.com/AQAAAM2cg3u73urvLHrzd9yiCuon1xNn_____9m6Mvbq77iLrM xpxKBU_K91wdtX/play;frame=AQAAAPf8wFiN6EmoCADMm0d6XrUn1xNn_____3d aAmc9FIMmtukeuAccJye8F9qo/

hahaha thats awesome thanks dentitov

Rodney

01-02-2010, 07:40 AM

John took the adverb right out my mouth.

That was indeed awesome.
Certainly made me smile.

It harkens back to the old Warner Bros ''Daffy Drawings".

Rather hard to do that with CG. ;)

BUsketch81

01-20-2010, 09:11 PM

I hope everyone got a chance to see Disney's The Princess and the Frog. If anyone would like to say how many times they've seen it, I'm all ears!

I hope you all found more hidden gags in the movie. The CalArts class room number A113 was found on the trolly that Tiana took to work. And when Mama Odie was digging through her trunk while singing her song "Dig a Little Deeper", she tossed out an animation disc and Genie's lamp(Aladdin).

And there's one last thing I like to point out. In the scene where Louis, Tiana and Naveen got on the riverboat, Louis sees shadows of what appear to be hunters with guns just around the corner. He starts panicing while running desperately in place, with his feet seemingly headed in all directions trying to flee and not get caught. Just like Humphrey the Bear! :laughing: Don't you think?

zanekohler

01-22-2010, 11:41 AM

ericaanimation

01-23-2010, 11:31 AM

I seen it a few weeks back. I am very glad to see a 2D film back in the theater I just hope other people see it that way to because I would love for 2D to have a boom again. I hope I can go get to see it at least one more time before it leaves theaters.

Erica Bey:p

Rodney

01-24-2010, 12:18 PM

I got a chance to see 'PatF' last week and I've been sitting on my opinion ever since. Here's why:

I saw 'PatF' inbetween 'Sherlock Holmes' and 'Avatar' with a guy that really really really did not want to see the movie. (He went only to humor me and because we had to wait a few hours to see Avatar anyway)

I will have to see PatF again (perhaps with my daughters who really want to see it!) ;)

Here is my -first- assessment of the experience: If you want to believe in 2D... wait and read my -second- assessment please wherein I attempt to assess the movie on its own merits and not as seen in competition with other movies!

My first impression is that 'PatF' simply could not compete with the likes of 'Sherlock' and 'Avatar' in terms of storytelling and entertainment level quality. There is no doubt it hit its mark with its primary audience (young girls with dreams to dream) but the Disney Princess sure has a lot to compete with these days.

I'd say the primary difference in these three movies is the pacing.
Both 'Sherlock' and 'Avatar' move along at pretty blistering paces. Contrast this with with 'PatF' which flows very naturally from place to place. Of course it does... it was designed that way!

Compound all of this with my interest in mystery and science fiction and lack of interest in frogs and New Orleans and you too might have a recipe for a meal to be enjoyed another day.

I suspect the difference is a lot like fast food versus a good 'ol home cooked meal. It looks like I was definitely in the mood for fast food last week.

I'm looking forward to seeing 'PatF' again when I am better prepared to see it.

jeremyhopkins

01-25-2010, 03:26 PM

Rodney, I think that's a fair review. At least you gave it a shot and that's all anyone can ask another to do. You hit on the major issue which is competition. The last couple months of 2009 was crowded with popular movies and other entertainment (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/new-super-mario-bros-wii-sells-10-million) as well. This industry is never easy...

zanekohler

01-25-2010, 04:15 PM

In terms of competition I think another way the film will loose out is in the awards. Some films can gain a second wind after garnishing some awards. In my opinion 2009 was a great year for animated films creating tough competition. Makes it a little harder to stand out.
I get to vote for ASIFA and for me this might be the toughest year since I started voting. I can honestly say there have been a few years in the past had it been released It would have been my top choice.

DNethery

01-28-2010, 07:12 AM

never mind.

Rodney

01-28-2010, 09:15 AM

Well said David (before the edit that is)
For what its worth... I don't disagree.
I didn't consider 'Sherlock Holmes' to be a Sherlock Holmes movie either.
But I liked it a lot anyway.

I would have gone into more detail on 'Sherlock Holmes' but this is a Princess and the Frog topic so I was going to save it for another day.

There was one very nitpicky thing that bugged/bugs the heck out of me about that film. It's silly... but its my opinion. ;)

Near the very beginning of the movie, when a cameraman goes to take a photo of Holmes, they have him raise his arm/hand to hide his face. So far... so good. That's okay. But... when the picture appears in the newpaper there he is with that hand covering his face. IMO this wouldn't happen and misses a chance to really bring home the point that is sewn throughout the movie... that it's all about the details.

What an newspaper photoartist would likely have done would have been to draw the face as it was 'supposed' to be. And that face would have been like the one most of us know as Sherlock Holmes. A subtheme then... the myth and the legend of Sherlock Holmes was created more through the imagination of those who thought they knew the famous Slueth rather than those who knew his true character.

This movie was about appearances not being what they seem and the truth found in the tiniest of details. Believe it or not this little oversight... a silly lack of NOT exploiting a very important detail... almost ruined the whole movie for me. I spend the rest of the film trying to suspend my disbelieve that Robert Downey Jr was Sherlock Holmes. He wasn't the real (imagined) Sherlock Holmes... he couldn't be.

P.S. If you want to paste your reply back into your post let me know and I'll send it to you. It's a great response. I'm very glad I got to read it.

joedorsey

01-29-2010, 02:46 AM

It's a great response. I'm very glad I got to read it.

Dadgummit! I missed it! :mad:

DNethery

01-29-2010, 08:22 AM

Dadgummit! I missed it! :mad:

Oh, I didn't know anyone saw it . I re-read it after I posted and it came off as too "ranty" and off-topic, so I deleted it . (I was mostly complaining about "Sherlock Holmes") .

Sorry for the confusion.

Rodney

01-29-2010, 08:53 AM

Oh, I didn't know anyone saw it . I re-read it after I posted and it came off as too "ranty" and off-topic, so I deleted it . (I was mostly complaining about "Sherlock Holmes") .

Where some might see rant I see a discussion about the art of animation (with a little discussion of Sherlock Holmes or lack thereof thrown in for good measure).

The main point of this topic is to investigate how movies like "Princess and the Frog" carry the art forward. We all want hand drawn animation to succeed. There is no surprise there.

We can't get there by not talking about the film and making comparisons.
Its okay to disagree and have different tastes and opinions.

If complaining about Sherlock Holmes will save hand drawn animation... I say we go for it. hehe

jeremyhopkins

01-29-2010, 02:10 PM

There is a tie in between PatF and Sherlock Holmes. One would be the Great Mouse Detective and the other would be John Musker's take on Edgar Allen Poe C. Auguste Dupin mysteries in the Torch Tiger book. Haven't had a chance to see the new Sherlock movies but I enjoyed the Great Mouse Detective and Le Cas Estrange du Torche Tiger. A good mystery is always interesting to me.

I thought you made good points as well David. Maybe it's just been one of those weeks.

Hammy

01-30-2010, 12:35 AM

I saw the movie with my sister last month. And we were in the theater with a bunch of kids, I was kind of afraid they would ruin the movie experience for us but it turned out the other way!

The kids seems entertained by it, especially the part with the frog catchers. The kid's giggles and laughters drove the entire theater laughing because they just wouldn't stop their giggling.

However, for the grown-ups, I think the movie was just okay. The best character in it for most of my friends and I is probably Charlotte. She has a very nice and unique characteristic that went well with her design, voice, acting and animation too.

While I liked the movie but I do think there's a few lines that didn't seem to convince me that much, since I wasn't able to fully relate to the way some of the character thinks and what drove them to say certain dialogues than something else that would have made more sense. Also, Naveen and Lawrence is a little too similar to Prince Edward and Nathaniel.. Perhaps that's how most princes stories are told in the first place.. Just my humble 2 cents however.

Overall, it was still a pleasant movie for both my sister and I. We enjoyed it and hope Disney would keep up their great work on bringing back the 2D animation world again.

danparkerstudios

02-08-2010, 06:47 PM

I've seen this movie near the end of 2009. It was a great movie. It was cool and it had a lot of great moments. And apart from it being 2D animated, it had a great story.

I liked it very much.

ericaanimation

02-08-2010, 07:29 PM

Hammy,

I hadn't thought of it but Prince Navean and Lawerence do bear a similarity to Prince Edward and Nathaniel. Lawerence even looks kind of the guy who played Nathaniel. I too enjoyed the movie. I plan to go see it for a second time with my husband this week before it stops play to help boost the sales even if is just by two tickets. Some of the cene I enjoyed were the scenes that had Mama Odie and Louis in them. Louis had a certian old style characterization which was enjoyable to watch. I also enjoyed the main music sequence of the shadow man.

Erica

DNethery

02-09-2010, 10:38 AM

Hammy,

I hadn't thought of it but Prince Navean and Lawerence do bear a similarity to Prince Edward and Nathaniel.

I noticed the similarity of the relationship/character types immediately and I was a little surprised that the filmmakers decided to proceed with Naveen and Lawrence looking like that when such similar characters had appeared in the recent "Enchanted" film . (which truth be told probably hurt PATF a bit , since "Enchanted" along with the Shrek movies , helped cement the idea that fairy tale musicals are ridiculous and old-fashioned , deserving of nothing better than parody . Films like "Enchanted" condition the audience to make fun of the fairy tale genre with a slightly cynical "wink-wink-nudge-nudge" condescending attitude and then surprise, surprise : the audience won't take something like PATF seriously. Wonder why ? But I digress ...)

Also, the Nathaniel character design in "Enchanted" was much better drawn and designed than Lawrence because the design is a caricature of the live-action actor who played him, Timothy Spalls.

(P.S. I liked "Enchanted" so don't mistake my comments above as saying I didn't enjoy it, but to my way of thinking if you're going to do a self-parody -- even a mild, affectionate self-parody like Enchanted --- don't turn around a couple of years later and try to do the same sort of movie that you invited your audience to laugh at in the parody version and expect most of the audience to take it seriously now.)

Rodney

02-21-2010, 06:28 AM

Finally got the chance to see PatF with my family.
Exactly as I figured I found it to be wonderfully entertaining.

I guess there is much to be said about the presentation of something in determining what you get out of it.

As some of you may recall my first view was sandwiched between 'Sherlock Holmes' and 'Avatar' and my sense was that it was tough for PatF to rise to the level of such fast paced and in-your-face movies.

Having settled into perhaps the best seat in the theater (slight left of center) and with a huge bag of buttered popcorn and my family in the next seats all distractions were removed and my mind at ease.

The movie definitely holds up with all the other classic Disney movies. In some places I dare say it raises the bar and sets new expectations for the future Disney features.

It may be too early to add my critiques of Princess and the Frog but I feel quite happy offering them as I'm confident PatF will have its rightful place in Disney history. I REALLY should wait for the third viewing! I'm really looking forward to seeing it again and can hardly wait for the DVD so I can view it with an eye for detail.

I have no doubt that with time and subsequent viewings I'll see a whole lot more details that will enhance my enjoyment of the film. This was similar to 'The Emperor's New Groove' which I must say upon first viewing I thought I should form a posse and expel those Disney cognocenti that had dared to mess with tradition. On second viewing I was laughing hesterically and it's become a movie I enjoy tremendously (It's no wonder Kronk got his own feature).

Where was I... ah... 'Frog'.

Dr. Facilier has definitely earned his place amongst the cast of Disney villians! I've read of others who wished that he had more screentime... a very fair criticism... but not to worry, we haven't seen the last of Dr. Facilier. The deal he'll make to get out of the mess he's in right now will no doubt put a lot more focus to his crafty ways.

Now this one won't win me any fans amongst animators...
One aspect that I haven't been thrilled about but that I'm sure will grow on me a little over the years is the shoehorning of Warner Brothers design characteristics into the film. I realize this is in large part due to Eric Goldberg... and for that the effort can perhaps be forgiven but am I wrong to be a little disappointed for not wanting to see Warner characters in Disney features? I suppose this was a little tip o' the hat and shot across the bow to say 'come on Warners, the waters fine, jump into hand drawn animation again with both feet'. Nah, the artists just caught the Disney management sleepin'. ;) Seriously though, if not a homage (we all love Warners animation), why not just go one set further and make the design one of classic Disney. No doubt I'll have more to say on this later.

I should be praising this film but I'm adding my thoughts as they come to me.
There were a few missed (minor... nitpicketty) opportunities.
One for instance, which I figure will be repaired if Disney takes PatF to broadway... There should have been a scene where Tiana's Dad sang (at least just a little). This would have sewn a thread into a film where, in essence, all characters are singers. This is a key element in Disney features... characters may not sing a note... but they could at any minute if called upon to do it. Especially coming from New Orleans, Tiana's Dad not only could sing... he SHOULD have.

Oh good grief... now we know Rodney will launch a crit at anything! ;)

Not to worry, praise of PatF will continue in the next posting...

LordDirk

02-21-2010, 08:40 AM

Now this one won't win me any fans amongst animators...
One aspect that I haven't been thrilled about but that I'm sure will grow on me a little over the years is the shoehorning of Warner Brothers design characteristics into the film. I realize this is in large part due to Eric Goldberg... and for that the effort can perhaps be forgiven but am I wrong to be a little disappointed for not wanting to see Warner characters in Disney features? I suppose this was a little tip o' the hat and shot across the bow to say 'come on Warners, the waters fine, jump into hand drawn animation again with both feet'. Nah, the artists just caught the Disney management sleepin'. ;) Seriously though, if not a homage (we all love Warners animation), why not just go one set further and make the design one of classic Disney. No doubt I'll have more to say on this later.

Well you are right that I do no agree with this point. There are a few others I don't agree with, but it's so subjective that I won't address them. I don't know if I agree with the word 'shoehorning' used in the placement of Louis, who I am assuming you are referring to, or what you implied in "The artists just caught the Disney management sleepin".

First lets address what is considered the Disney style vs the Warners Style. Though it has changed quite a bit over the years, the Disney style is often aquaited with full animation, subtle acting, and round plump shapes. Warners is characterized as fast, usually pose to pose, with an emphasis on timing. Now these can vary in each style but generally this is what most people think of when they think of Warners or Disney animation.

I don't see what is wrong with exploring more types of animation, and I will go further to say that Eric's style is part of Disney style. We both know that Eric is most recognized for his work on the Genie from Aladdin, or his animation of Phil from Hercules. The only difference I see in Louis is perhaps more freedom in taking the character off model in the extreme action shots. The Genie from Aladdin had just as many fun poses and quick movements as Louis, and Phil even had a shot or two where he made a funny face in a quick pose, very Warner like. Eric has a background with Warner animation, most notably Art Babbit, but his attention to smooth animation and follow through also shows that he is a competent Disney animator.

Animation is a medium to explore, like any art, and I am glad to see Eric expanding and exploring his own art. When I interned under him and Bert Klein, I saw some of the most complicated and intricate animation I've ever seen from those two. Saying that this was a shoehorning of a Warners character, when it is so obviously Erics, a man who has been animating for Disney since Aladdin, doesn't do him justice.

Also, I found the atmosphere at Disney extremely welcoming, creative, and communicative. I would believe more that it was a conscious effort to make Louis the way he was and assign him to Eric to animate rather than the artists having to sneak one by the management (btw, do you mean producers, directors, production managers?).

This being said you are of course entitled to your own opinion, and you do not have to like the Warners style of animation. I just think you made some assumptions a bit too quickly.

DNethery

02-21-2010, 10:15 AM

I don't see it. Louis doesn't look like a "Warner Bros. character" to me.

I think that's a meme that has started to make it's way around the animation community (no doubt fed by Eric's obvious appreciation for the Warner Bros. animated shorts, in particular Chuck Jones's work) , but I'd say look harder. Look for yourself, not through the lens of something posted on CartoonBrew. Does Louis look like any character you've ever seen in a Warner Bros. cartoon ? How about Ray ? Charlotte ? The frogs ?

Again, I don't see it.

Eric is a Disney animator of long standing. His drawing style is the "Disney style", but even that is hard to pin down exactly:what is "THE" Disney style ? Aladdin? Pocahontas ? Hercules? Mulan? Emperor's New Groove ? Lilo & Stitch? . If we look further in the past is THE Disney style Fred Moore 30's/40's style or Milt Kahl/Ken Anderson 60's ? In Eric's work I see a synthesis of several different influences , among them Fred Moore, Chuck Jones, Al Hirschfeld , but all given the unique Goldberg treatment.

I think there are definite "Disney Principles" of animation , but not a normative "Disney Style" . The principles work with Hirschfeld derived drawing style ("Rhapsody in Blue") or Gerald Scarfe derived drawing style ("Hercules") , or Chris Sanders derived drawing style ("Lilo & Stitch") .
Yes, it's true that sometimes a strong individual style can get watered down as it goes through the Disney system , but I still contend that there is more validity to "Disney Principles" of animation than defining a Disney house-style.

LordDirk

02-21-2010, 11:57 AM

I agree with DNethery, and I think he expressed what I was thinking better than I did. In general, try not to paint with such broad strokes.

Now, back about the movie, I'm sure everyone remembers the scene where Louis is getting the bush seeds taken out of his rump. When the DVD comes out (is it out yet?), take a moment to step through those scenes if you can. The poses and almost blur frames you will come across just in those few scenes are a real joy to watch and see how they work in motion, yet seem impossible to work standing alone.

Rodney

02-21-2010, 02:47 PM

I just lost a couple thousand words in response to your well worded responses. (Sigh. It's just as well and wasn't meant to be.)

I'll summarize my (overly) long lost novel by saying, "I see no Warner influence in Louis either".
(Eric says Louis's mouth was Warner inspired not me)

I'm mainly talking about the very obvious Warner design characters.
Watch again as I'm sure you'll see them.
Its some of the most fun and laugh out loud sequences in the movie.
Its also one character in particular.
Can you see him?

I'll have to check again when the movie is released on DVD but I recall one thing that wasn't good was that the first real laugh of the movie for me was when Frog Lavine is talking "blah blah blah" and without missing a beat says "...why are those logs moving". I loved that. What can I say, simple things amuze me.

Nope... my memory is faulty. Come to think of it the first real laugh of the movie (and perhaps few will disagree?) is after the cat is released from the ceiling. Heeehheeeeheeeheee. Now that is funny.

I don't know who wrote the general rule (perhaps everyone here has heard of it?) that the earlier in the movie the audience laughs the more enjoyable (entertaining?) the movie will be. I'll have to check but I think it's from 'Too Funny for Words' by Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston. [Disclaimer: Obviously this is directed at movies with some element of comedy]

Edit: Regarding the early-in-the-movie-laugh... interestingly, this may very well be something I heard or read from Don Bluth. Still checking...

joedorsey

02-21-2010, 02:56 PM

I don't know who wrote the general rule (perhaps everyone here has heard of it?) that the earlier in the movie the audience laughs the more enjoyable the movie will be.

I hear what you're saying. I know that when I've gotten a good laugh to begin with, I've warmed up to the movie. I've heard that for public speaking as well. Here is an excerpt from "Tootsie" that got me going early in the show. Michael Dorsey is trying to get work as an actor and his agent can't help him anymore...

Michael Dorsey: Are you saying that nobody in New York will work with me?
George Fields: No, no, that's too limited... nobody in Hollywood wants to work with you either. I can't even set you up for a commercial. You played a *tomato* for 30 seconds - they went a half a day over schedule because you wouldn't sit down.
Michael Dorsey: Of course. It was illogical.
George Fields: YOU WERE A TOMATO!!! A tomato doesn't have logic. A tomato can't move!

Rodney

02-21-2010, 03:45 PM

Joe,
Great example. That is so true.

As a kid I use to wonder why people always started their speeches with a (usually lame) joke. Hey dude, I'm not interested in your silly jokes... just get on with the show!

No need to wonder any more! ;)

Even if the joke falls flat it will have likely served its intended purpose.
If the joke hits its mark, you may have well stolen the show.

Rodney

03-01-2010, 03:14 AM

Disney is certainly wasting no time bringing PatF out on DVD!
I'll most definitely be buying a copy.

- Additional commentary to my first thoughts on PatF... while Avatar and Sherlock Holmes may generate more buzz in the short term 'Princess and the Frog' will be remembered as a Disney classic for many years to come. It should linger much longer after everyone has forgotten those other two films.

The short turn around does have me wondering what Extras they'll put on the disk... perhaps the video insights into animation that we've all been looking at over these past few months?

joedorsey

03-01-2010, 04:44 AM

Disney is certainly wasting no time bringing PatF out on DVD!
I'll most definitely be buying a copy.

Dang! March 16th is just around the corner. Here are a few internet snippets I found.

Bonus clips (I believe coming on the DVD)

Bruno on his character (http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/m3KVOMV4DHFT0/186-7401695-4121110)
Bruno on the film (http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/m3T358E0YG6IQR/186-7401695-4121110)
Anika on her character (http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/m3BD89A3T4SGY6/186-7401695-4121110)
Anika on the film (http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/m10REU1F6T8N71/186-7401695-4121110)
Anika in the studio (http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/m2PNNHRVY7XAZ4/186-7401695-4121110)
Bruno And Anika in the studio (http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/m3POGMA6D8TVAD/186-7401695-4121110)
Randy Newman on New Orleans (http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/mCT7C1SPKEL6S/186-7401695-4121110)
Randy Newman on what to expect (http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/mCT7C1SPKEL6S/186-7401695-4121110)
Oprah in the studio (http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/m3I08GSH6TWDAL/186-7401695-4121110)
Animating Facilier (http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/m2I2AJPVYBMU4E/186-7401695-4121110)(watch that girl burn up the Cintiq!) ;)
Movie clip: Meet Louis (http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/mYR6RFF8MIR9X/186-7401695-4121110)
Movie clip: Gumbo (http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/m18J9JNPNCDXZD/186-7401695-4121110)

And around youtube...

Drawing reel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PortaXpzMA8&NR=1)
Michael Surrey drawing Ray (http://www.youtube.com/user/disneyanimation#p/u/7/chxWeLm8l9o)
Eric Goldberg draws Louis (http://www.youtube.com/user/disneyanimation#p/u/26/dPcZWsQgoQI)
Randy Haycock draws the Prince (http://www.youtube.com/user/disneyanimation#p/u/27/vy_r-ODZSCs)
Bruce Smith draws Dr. Fecilier (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbStB-eis3w&feature=related)
Mark Henn talks about animating Tiana (http://www.youtube.com/user/disneyanimation#p/u/53/LQg7PWPJjXQ)

lavallelee

03-01-2010, 05:03 AM

hey nice list, im gonna watch it all! lol

i thought PATF was coming out the 7th... sadly its not

have to wait an extra week..

Rodney

03-01-2010, 07:30 AM

Great collection of links Joe!
Its nice to have them all here in one place.

It seems like every time I go on line I find a few more which is perfectly fine by me. I haven't had a chance to draw any of the characters today but will try to make up for it tomorrow... sorry life drawing gurus... I'm into PatF drawing these days.

While clicking on your links I ran across this 'How to draw Mama Odie' by Andreas Deja. This is much better than the reference I had when I drew my pic.

Note: I'd love to do this kind of study with one of the old classics like 'Robin Hood' but there is a distinct lack of video drawing reference from the good 'ol days.

If Disney continues to leverage the worlds love of animated drawing like they seem to be embracing it with the fans at present there will be a hand drawn renaissance yet. It could even press the artform to the next level.

WillW

03-01-2010, 07:46 AM

hey nice list, Im gonna watch it all! lol

i thought PATF was coming out the 7th... sadly its not

have to wait an extra week..

I wish I knew when the blue ray is gonna be out in the UK :C, I could buy the US version but then I wouldn't be able to play it lol.

zanekohler

03-01-2010, 02:01 PM

hey nice list, im gonna watch it all! lol

i thought PATF was coming out the 7th... sadly its not

have to wait an extra week..

Yeah, still right around the corner!

Altho I am a little disappointed in Disney. When it comes to animation dvd's I usually buy them based on the extras. The regular dvd barely has any. Which is Disney trying to force me to upgrade to Blu-Ray :mad: . I have the screener already, So there is not much need for me to run out and buy any version at this point. oh well, at least I got to see some of it from the links posted here!

Rodney

03-02-2010, 04:39 AM

Just when I think I might escape this movie for a little while...

My daughter regularly buys one japanese comic and this week she brought it to me as she saw something in it she knew I'd be interested in... the first part of the anime adaptation of 'The Princess and the Frog' is serialized in it.

Cool.

Of course this means I'll have no choice but to find the collected story when they eventually publish it.

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=50000

Note: This image has been changed from its original blue color ink and darkened a bit.

lavallelee

03-16-2010, 06:36 AM

Anyone else getting it? I am getting the collectors edition with the extra bonus discs.

WillW

03-16-2010, 07:29 AM

I want to get it, but I gotta wait a few months before its released here in the uk.

zanekohler

03-16-2010, 09:54 AM

I am probably going to hold off. One I have the screener. Second there are not enough features on the regular dvd to make me want to buy it. I am not sold on BluRay just yet. I think they are absolutely awesome. However with companies starting to have hd downloadable movies with extra features included it makes me hesitate on the format.

But I digress... If I had a Bluray or PS3 I certainly feel that version is awesome.

Rodney

03-17-2010, 04:23 AM

It took about 5 seconds from the time I saw it on the shelf yesterday to when it was in my grubby little hands ready for the purchasing. (I bought the Astroboy video too but haven't had a chance to watch it yet... yeah its CG but looks great to me!)

The standard DVD has some of the deleted scenes and what can I say except I think they were best left on the cutting room floor. On the other hand, it's too bad some of the work Eric Goldberg did at Louis's introduction didn't make the cut.

I would prefer to have waited for the extended Blue Ray with all the extra bells and whistles but this was an essential purchase. I haven't yet watched with the filmmakers commentary on so am looking forward to that.

There is some great detail and nice touches throughout.
For instance... something that is hard to notice unless you go frame by frame... Dr. Facelier's slight of hand when he first meets Prince Naveen and hands him his business card. No one would have noticed if this wasn't drawn into the sequence the way it was but having it there gives just a little more the depth to this crafty character that makes it just a little more awesome. Nice touch!

danparkerstudios

03-20-2010, 06:59 PM

I have enjoyed this movie when it was in Theatres, and today, my mom bought me the DVD even though I was going to buy it myself.

ericaanimation

03-26-2010, 11:40 AM

I bought the Blu-Ray DVD combo pack even though I do not have a Blu-Ray player for the bonus feature because I think I will eventually break down and buy one. It does suck that the DVD single disc had practically no bonus features. If any one has wacthed the bonus features please tell me how they were.

Erica

Rodney

03-26-2010, 05:25 PM

If any one has wacthed the bonus features please tell me how they were.

Erica,
I've made a conscious decision to set 'The Princess and the Frog' as a baseline to measure feature animation against. One could say my previous baseline was 'Robin Hood' (It still is for studying purposes but I fear there are some things about the process of creating Robin Hood that cannot be studied at this latter point in time). As such I purchased the Blueray/ DVD set and am glad I did.

The highlight for folks here in this forum will likely be the 'Show Work in Progress' bonus feature (apparently only available on the Bluray disc) that allows viewing of the rough animation via a screen within a screen. It can be turned on and shows up in the upper left corner of the screen while watching the movie. It appears to be frame by frame all the way through which is a real treat... and of course, excellent for study.

I'm not really into the bonus games but I always enjoy the director commentary. I think it is Ron Musker that says if they recorded their commentary again they'd have a completely different dialogue flowing through the movie. Sure wish they'd do that! Please feel free to do it again... and again... and again.

I do wish that animation studios could realize one of the greatest values in hand drawn animation is in the drawings themselves. This is something that CG can never have (although of course in many cases it can still have the thumbnail drawings, the story sketches, etc). Of course the downside of this realization is that purchasing the drawings would likely become more expensive with the increase in interest. There is also the matter of creating your own competition by revealing the process of creating animated movies. Whatever... as far as I'm concerned the world would be a more interesting place if more people where able to animate... to design and then tell stories via drawings in motion... these magical things called animated 'movies'.

As beautiful as the end product is there is nothing quite like seeing those rough moving images.

Tamias

03-26-2010, 09:25 PM

I think I was the only one walking out of the theater with a "meh" feeling when my family and I saw The Princess and the Frog.

Nothing against the animation, because some parts were absolutely sublime in how crisp and exact and lively it all was... But I didn't feel any weight on any of the characters: the villain didn't seem to have a reason for doing any of the evil things he did, Mama Odie came out of nowhere and disappeared after a song, and Ray's character I think wasn't treated gravely enough for us to care a bit what happened to him. And I felt the songs were below par, incidentally, but I suppose I was spoiled by the excellence of the 90's-era Alan Menken, Tim Rice, Stephen Schwartz tunes. "Almost There" is listenable at least.

The flirty relationship between the frogs was fun to watch and Louis was a neat character with a funky animation style I loved to follow. But other than that, I thought it was kinda stale. I'll pass on the DVD just because I don't think there's much I can learn from it that I can't learn elsewhere... Then again I suppose I could give the movie another shot. :/

jeremyhopkins

03-26-2010, 10:53 PM

Together we purchased the Bluray combo disk, the artbook, the soundtrack, and the little golden book. The Bluray and the artbook are mine the rest belong to my girlfriend. I would say the Bluray alone is worth having especially with a nice HD tv. The extra features are good and I agree with Rodney that the best part is seeing the rough reel along side the final cut. I would also recommend listening to the director's commentary because it helps clarify some of the choices that were made for the film.

I've made a conscious decision to set 'The Princess and the Frog' as a baseline to measure feature animation against
Sorry Rodney, perhaps we have different tastes in movies but I wouldn't use PatF or Robinhood as a baseline for animated films. The reason why is that both films borrow heavily from the Disney tradition. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed PatF and thought it was a fun film but I just think it's best to go to the source and study Lady and the Tramp or Bambi for technique(which inspired the design style in PatF). Then apply personal experiences and observations to your work to avoid the imitation vs observation prevalent in so much modern entertainment.

jeremyhopkins

03-26-2010, 10:55 PM

As a side note, I'm going to merge this topic in with the other PatF thread. Thanks!

Ben Wilson

03-27-2010, 01:36 AM

Tamias, I would have to agree with you there. I really enjoyed the film, but mostly because it was rare to see 2d animation. None of the songs were particularly memorable. And you're right about the witch appearing out of nowhere and then disappearing. Maybe it's because we are older, but then again, I watch the old Disney films and still get a strong emotional feelings from them. There is a quality about Disney films and I think it's memorable characters. The most memorable character was probably Louis. But compare Louis to the genie in Aladdin and it's not exactly Eric's greatest achievement.

It seems to be quite a common thing with modern films that they all feel so throw away. I actually can't remember that much about what happened in Frog. I can't even comment on your opinion of Ray because I have no idea which character Ray was. But none the less, I enjoyed it at the cinema. Having walked out of Avatar the day before it was definitely miles above that pile of junk. It kept me in my seat and entertained for 90 minutes so Disney did their job well enough.

Rodney

03-27-2010, 05:36 AM

Then again I suppose I could give the movie another shot.

I would encourage everyone to watch Disney movies twice before truly considering; once to cleanse the pallet of preconcieved ideas and external influences and once to enjoy the movie for what it is. This has been my experience with other Disney movies as well and its a phenomenon I hope to look into.

To possibly reveal more about me than anyone cares to know about me, the preconcieved ideas I had when first seeing Princess and the Frog included a general dislike of movies related to Louisiana and New Orleans (I've never been there and the only reference point other than a few stereotypes from other movies). Other biases that tint my view of the film include the simple fact that I am not black, not a girl, don't care for frogs, think voodoo is a sham and dangerous thing etc. etc ad infinitum. And to make matters worse, (in short), I can reject just about any film in a theater these days based on my core religious beliefs.

Other Disney movies have had the same effect on me. I actually hated 'The Emporers New Grove' the first time I saw it. I thought Disney had done gone and lost their minds to create and release it. What were they thinking!!! The effect was the opposite (and I was highly entertained) when I saw the movie again and during subsequent screenings. Its a great movie.

I do not know why all this oddness is, but since the movie doesn't change between the first and subsequent viewings I can only conclude it this has everything to do with how I percieve things. At some point I have allowed myself to lay aside the negativity and preconditions and just enjoy what is there to be seen and experienced.

Interestingly, I find the songs from the film that seemed trivial to me return often from somewhere deep down in my memory and its hard to keep from audibly humming them. To do this in a military setting would be rather embarassing.

...from memory now.... everybody sing!

Gonna take you down,
Gonna take you down,
Gonna take you all the way down.

Gonna take you down,
Gonna take you down,
Gonna take you all the way.

Going down the Bayou.
Going down the Bayou.
Taking you all the way.

.Ahem. Not exactly a classic but dat be a catchy tune.
Dose Cajin, Dey mus love it down d'ere.

(For the uninitiated you have to slip into the character Ray here)

Disney movies are the entertainment that can be enjoyed when we allow ourselves to suspend the belief that without a single doubt none of the stuff seen up on that big screen is real.

Tamias

03-27-2010, 07:20 AM

Okay, yeah, Ray was fun. I just wish he had a more thought out storyline x3 I mean, c'mon, the finale with the stars at the end (dear god I'm trying to keep this as spoiler free as possible) was just WAY overdrawn x3

But I am going to watch it again, and I'll probably really enjoy myself.

To be honest, my favorite recent "Disney" animation has been the 12 minutes or so at the beginning and end of the movie Enchanted. Totally cliched, of course, but that's actually what they were going for x3 And the chipmunk was so cute he blew my face off.

Rodney

03-27-2010, 07:48 AM

I understand that others have nits to pick with regard to 'Enchanted' but I consider that movie just about perfect. It was everything a reverse... no... real animated fairly tale should be. It captured the essence of the Disney classic fairy tales superbly and dare I say plussed it up even. In the process we learned imaginary worlds of animation and a lot about ourselves. We were taken along for an enchanted ride... even entertained.

Sometimes it does help to just let go and let the storytellers take you to where they want you to be.

Regarding the stars and Ray... you've really got to see this in the whole scheme of the message that was being presented (mostly focused on Tiana and Prince Naveen). There is a continuing theme running through the whole movie and it takes some effort to relax... release the "I wouldn't have written this story that way"... and just let the characters live out their lives... to believe all of that stuff being presented is somehow real. This is not easy.

I must admit though that if I were a young child watching the movie I might see these characters differently. Perhaps these character's adventures would be too real?

Sometimes it seems I can't watch a movie and enjoy it anymore... at least not without (as Don might say) 'Getting the Feeling'. In order to go there we must allow ourselves (if only for the moment) to believe.

Tamias

03-27-2010, 09:10 AM

You're going to be fun to get to know, Rodney ;)

Rodney

03-27-2010, 09:22 AM

You're going to be fun to get to know, Rodney

Its still not to late to run for the hills! ;)

I just got an email from my oldest daughter.
It seems she was looking for the Princess and the Frog DVD but couldn't find it. (The DVD case is empty)

She is in Japan. I'm currently in the U.S. (Guess who has the DVD?)

Oh oh. Looks like I'm in trouble again.

Tamias

03-27-2010, 11:16 AM

Well, I just watched the film again and I must say I quite enjoyed it the second time around.

Louis is still my favorite character to watch. His mouth is basically his entire face, so he is very animated when he talks. I also like how his skin sags in places, it's all very smooth and interesting.

I also really enjoyed Tiana the frog's character design. Whereas Naveen is really a generic looking character, the animators went with a smooth, very cute female frog for the committed faux princess. I think her head is interesting because all of her features are crammed into the top two-thirds of the head shape, so she has a very high mouth, which is adorable. However, they avoided the "dopey" look by virtually erasing her chin, instead allowing her head to flow smoothly into her body (you can see this especially when she is standing up).

The human characters are fun because they are squashed and stretched to the point of ridiculousness, especially the character "Lottie" as both a child and "adult." Their eyes are so expressive, moreso I think than in any other Disney film I've seen.

I still have a nit to pick about the songs though. Most of them aren't that creative, basically reiterating things the characters have already said without much variation, and they ALWAYS build to a melodramatic, over-the-top finale that the lackluster energy of the song just doesn't justify. Mama Odie's song, for instance, takes place the entire time in her old swamp shack, and then suddenly ends with a brilliant-but-slightly-overdone scene of basically explosive color when they walk outside. Same with Facilier's opening song (which I think is lyrically the best one). It seems like they were trying to capture some sort of Broadway-musical-finale type feeling but missed the mark.

And I just don't understand their reasoning; most of Disney's most successful musical movements have been so much more subtle. My favorite from Aladdin is a great example of this: Genie's "Never Had a Friend Like Me" is an outstanding piece of cinematic control and color, and even though it's probably the closest of all 90's Disney song sequences to the songs in Princess and the Frog, it was executed carefully and built SLOWLY to that final scene with Genie and all his conjurings. Genie didn't just sing the entire song by himself and then conjure everything up while he held the final note.

Ironically, I think PatF's most successful movement is the otherwise rather throwaway "Bayou" song. The fireflies are used creatively throughout and they become a series of fireworks as the song closes. It wasn't as flashy as the other songs, but it worked.

I can't deny that the digitally aided animation is amazing, though. I love the lighting effects the fireflies cause on the environment, the three-dimensional flowers of the swamp, etc. One of my favorite parts is when Tiana is showing Naveen how to slice a mushroom, and all the pieces of the mushroom are handled realistically by the animators. I'm a sucker for technical stuff like that x3

~Tamias

Rodney

03-28-2010, 12:13 PM

I still have a nit to pick about the songs though.

Listening to the Director's Commentary on the DVD really helped me put the songs into proper perspective. There was obviously a lot of thought put into them and the variety of songs was chosen to represent the various styles of music found in New Orleans. That's a tough thing to carry off in under 90 minutes.

If nothing else, this film (and in particular the songs) has transformed me from someone with very little interest in New Orleans to someone who would like to visit there someday. That was no small transformation.

madanimator

03-28-2010, 01:51 PM

Listening to the Director's Commentary on the DVD really helped me put the songs into proper perspective. There was obviously a lot of thought put into them and the variety of songs was chosen to represent the various styles of music found in New Orleans. That's a tough thing to carry off in under 90 minutes.

If nothing else, this film (and in particular the songs) has transformed me from someone with very little interest in New Orleans to someone who would like to visit there someday. That was no small transformation.

I don't know, but for me a 2d feature film should not be like a documentary report about anything... I do love the movie, but the explination, that the songs are there to represent the various styles of music is not satisfying for me. It is a bad thing that it is necessary for the audience to watch the director's commentary to like the songs and know why they are there ...

Rodney

03-28-2010, 02:11 PM

I don't know, but for me a 2d feature film should not be like a documentary report about anything... I do love the movie, but the explination, that the songs are there to represent the various styles of music is not satisfying for me. It is a bad thing that it is necessary for the audience to watch the director's commentary to like the songs and know why they are there ...

I agree it would be a bad thing.
Perhaps you misunderstand me.
I don't think anyone needs to hear the commentary for the songs to succeed in this movie.

There are at least two perspectives to consider here:

1. The viewer who is watching the movie. (Usually to be entertained)
2. The viewer who is studying the movie. (Interested in the creative process)

Like many here, I fit into both of these categories.
I enjoyed the songs before I heard the commentary. It just added another layer of appreciation for me to understand from the perspective of someone studying the movie the degree to which they succeed. Before hearing the commentary I certainly couldn't differentiate one form of Jazz from another. This is something of value to those in yet another category that just want to know a little bit more about what they've just seen.

For my part it may help to see I had absolutely no interest... perhaps less than no interest in visiting New Orleans before seeing this movie.

madanimator

03-28-2010, 02:14 PM

Ah, okay :)

Rodney

05-08-2010, 05:24 AM

Over the last few weeks I've had the opportunity to watch PatF again twice; once via the tiny screen of an IPOD (I borrowed my daughters IPOD while traveling) and again via standard DVD (today).

I continue to be impressed by this movie.

DizzyVix

05-08-2010, 06:58 AM

I watched the movie a month ago - I really enjoied it, the music was really good and not the expected cheesy Disney tune and the characters where really good.

Have to say that considering that these are for children the exit of the bad guy (trying not to give spoliers) was slightly more grim than expected for Disney.

On the whole a very good movie - my fave character was the blond best friend.

Rodney

05-08-2010, 03:32 PM

Apologies in advance for the following if it offends anyone.
The intent is to carry forward the analyse of this film and continue the discussion.

Have to say that considering that these are for children the exit of the bad guy (trying not to give spoliers) was slightly more grim than expected for Disney.

I always admire the thoughtfulness of people who post spoiler warnings. It's the right thing to do of course. I do have to laugh a little at ourselves thogh as it's kind of hard to analyse a movie and not give out spoilers.

Disney can't win here can they.
Your thoughts relay the common error that Disney movies are for children. They aren't.
Walt Disney claimed he made films for the child in us all.

While I'm sure he would have finessed that scene a lot, I think Walt Disney would be proud of 'Princess and the Frog' (especially because it portrayed the exit of a religious charlatan that deserved what he got). I do find myself in agreement that Dr. Facelier needed just a little more time on screen (and character beats) for that particular ending to properly play off; the full setup and payoff of a nasty character's arc. Some might argue those beats are there.

Discussions on the religious aspects of a film are tough to pull off.
People get upset when discussing things so close to their heart.
But this is one of te elements in films like PatF that are worth talking about.
Christian groups supposedly blacklisted PatF for it's voodoo themes and dark arts. As an ultra conservative on the faith scale I understand where they are coming from* but (trying to be careful here and not step on toes is impossible) what else can I suggest except that they are simply wrong.

PatF is a film that tries to capture and reflects (real) life in all of its story arcs. It has elements of a belief system that I think are misguided and wrong.
It also has themes of love, death, spirituality and honor and dishonor.

I know I'm steering this conversation a little off from where DizzyVix left off but folks should more carefully watch Snow White and the other Disney films. When it comes to themes and story arcs, we in the audience don't appear to have a clue about what we are watching! Regarding elements of religion, death and the dark arts modern day critics with religious interests would likely have blasted Snow White apart.

This is a film I encourage both parents and their kids to watch.
Kids are smart but I'm not sure parents are as well equipped to handle this stuff. If only parents would realize that films like these provide ideal opportunities to sit down with their kids... this is where good discussions start!

*The lists that christian groups have on Disney movie themes is remarkably spot on. I find their counts of themes and events contribute a lot to the discussion. If one decides to reject Disney movies on religious grounds they would have to reject the whole lot.

(Apologies... I can't locate the site in question at the moment. It's a great site)

Now here is what amazes me the most (I speak as a police officer that deals on occassion with kids using drugs): I haven't read a single article that takes Disney to task for portraying these young girls kissing frogs. If PatF has one (real-ly) dangerous theme it is sure to be this one. Of course this is a fatal flaw of the original classic story and exorcising it from the movie would be a bit tough to pull off. ;)

It's also worth noting that the word sinner is mentioned three times in PatF.
Just as Snow White is a religious movie so is PatF.
Don't believe me... please... go rewatch.

KlarkKentThe3rd

05-10-2010, 06:11 PM

I saw it recently. Really, Disney cannot afford to make something new, they have a reputation to worry about. I think you cannot become too big, too many ppl will be expecting too much from you.

The Secret of Kells tops ... and The Frog IMO.

C. Siemens

05-11-2010, 07:07 AM

I don't mind songs in animated features as much as some of my colleagues but in PatF there were two or three two many for my taste.

Down in New Orleans was a good number which tried to introduce all the major players, although that aspect was a little thin and potentially confusing.

Almost There is your typical 'I want'-song but visually an interesting break which makes it a worthy addition IMO.

Friends on the Other Side was visually impressive, although too colourful for my taste, and pretty much the only song that didn't stop the movie because some plot-advancing events happened in it and the villain was fully revealed. Musically the best song.

When we're Human - yet another 'I want'-song. I like to look at it because of impressively crafted Eric Goldberg animation but all in all songs of that nature never seem to be too subtle.

Gonna take you there - sorry but I thought it was the most unnecessary song in the entire movie. It was sheer filler because all it did was repeat over and over what was happening in the animation and what happened in the animation did next to nothing for the story. The firefly procession looked mechanical to me with its evenly timed bobbing in the air. A computer effect and a bad one because it showed. (Also, and this is nitpicking - in the song a fat alligator falls flat on his belly, burying a whole swarm of fireflies under him and they all live. Later all it takes to kill one is for a skinny man to step on it. Hm.)
All in all, Gonna take you there to me feels like they only crammed it in to have at least one zydeco number in the movie.

Ma Belle Evangeline - if Ray had to have a song in the movie it should have been this one. It elaborated but on two important aspects. Not my favourite song but some nice character and effects animation.

Dig a little Deeper - OK because it was Mama Odie's moment to shine but for me it brought the show to a screeching halt. Consider - first Mama Odie announces the lesson she's going to sing about, then she sings about it and afterwards asks whether everybody got what she just sang about. I also didn't like the spoonbill choir. For a gospel number it was too Broadway and too Disney for my taste.

All in all PatF felt very 90s - which for me is a good thing because it was the period during which my decision to work in animation was cemented. PatF is better than some 90s Disney features but certainly not the best of the bunch. I can't really estimate how well it works as a movie for audiences born in the late 90s or early 2000s but I guess it must feel somewhat dated.