Rock & Rule

[Alexandra Poston]

Rock & Rule was a 2D animated feature which was published in Canada, I believe, in 1983. The feature was definitely aimed toward adults since it had obvious sexual themes, along with some examples of drug use and alcohol. It's one of the few well animated 2D features that I've seen which was aimed for an older audience, and not for children.

The first day I watched it, I had to sit and rewatch three or four times because I was enchanted by the characters, the acting, and the guts the people to make this movie. I think I read somewhere that a large amount of the animation was from Sheridan students, which excites me. In my enthusiasm, I showed the film to all of my friends today, but each one of them reacted negatively - told me they didn't understand the story and that the animation was poor.

Has anyone seen this movie? What are your thoughts?

I know it isn't a very common movie, after production the team didn't have much money to market themselves and were put into the wrong category on TV or something.

http://animated-views.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/mok10.jpg

[N8Dogg5k]

Rock & Rule was definitely a movie ahead of its time.

The subject matter was indeed quite adult and gritty. The animation was not as good as to what could have been done at that time, but when you're working on very limited funds, as well dealing with the big wigs telling you where to "draw the line" things can get pretty difficult for the animators. So where corners were cut, I can understand.

I would have to say that I really enjoyed the art-style of the movie itself. The character designs where simple, yet very attractive, and even with the somewhat gritty animation, I do personally think actually helped to increase the atmosphere of the film itself.

The movie seethes with a lot of heart in my eyes. I really do feel that the animation team really put an effort forth with what they did.

Too bad not everyone can be understanding and see what the movie really represented at the time. In a time when animation was (and still is by the way) considered to be "for kids" Rock & Rule came along and showed the not everything 2-D is for a younger audience.

[jeremyhopkins]

Yes, I'm sorry I fall into the second category as some one who doesn't get it. I admire the ambition and the effort that many young artists put into creating Rock & Rule but the story left me confused. While there were many talented young animators working on it like D Brewster, Charlie Bonifacio, Chuck Gammage and Tom Sito, it felt like the animation was a hodgepodge of some strong scenes and some scenes that maybe needed some rethinking. Story wise, while there were elements that felt more mature, very 80's, the story crew fell back on the same animation cliches the audience had seen for decades. For me, having a gritty, metal atmosphere doesn't make a story mature, its what the story is trying to say and how the picture is presented that makes it adult. So for me, Iron Giant, the Incredibles and the first half of Wal-E are mature films that can be watched by children. The husband and wife fight in the Incredibles really stands to me as mature animation where there's subtext, great dialogue with an emotional center that can relate back to the audience. I'm sorry, I didn't get that same feeling of maturity from Rock and Rule. Though I do appreciate how Nelvana, at that time, was trying something new. Sadly though I don't think we'll see that type of investment in originality again from the Nelvana/Corus group.

[dmgctrl]

But I looked it up and theres quite a following for it. I found a trailer if anyone is interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFqLh2cL-_4

Also, there have been excellent comments about it over at youtube, including one written by "darliegodess" who claims to have been on the animation team.

[jeremyhopkins]

Darlie Goddess is Darlie Brewster or Dave Brewster then and was responsible for animating the lead male and female characters I think. Though I'm not sure if Nelvana was character or scene specific when they handed out work. The female main character reminds me a lot of Darlie's work and she has some of the best animation in the movie.
Also you can find the whole movie on veoh but I didn't want to link to something that might encourage piracy.

[N8Dogg5k]

I will agree that Rock & Rule was not as good as it probably could have been. MGM, when they brought the film over, did not have a lot of support for the picture to begin with, so the movie suffered edits and re-writes that bogged it down into what we got over here in the United States.

Regardless of circumstance though, I still feel that the heart of the movie shines through. I always knew there was more to the film than what we got, and thankfully the 2005 DVD release proved that.

Also I will agree that there have been plenty of other movies released that have better mature overtones to it. The Incredibles is probably one of Disney's best pictures in a very long time. The subject matter, considered to be highly infantile (superheros) was executed in a very believable and mature fashion. The Iron Giant and Wall-E were also really good examples of this as well, so I will agree with you on those points Jeremy Hopkins.

I've alwasy felt that a show like Batman The Animated Series also showcased how mature you can make a cartoon.

In fact, I just recently watched Bruce Timm's latest animated foray, being the Wonder Woman movie. It was really good, in my eyes at least...

Also shows like Gargoyles, and Avatar The Last Airbender are good examples of mature storytelling...

[jeremyhopkins]

Yeah those good points. Story edits and re-writes can work against a good film if the distributer in charge isn't supportive of the idea. Though I'm sorry, I still didn't get a better impression from the DVD release. There seems to be a cult following so maybe I'm just not getting it. Thanks for the different opinion!

This is leading into another discussion about maturity in animated films but I should clarify by saying, for me, that violence, swearing, or having bizzare unrelatable concept doesn't make a film adult. So the scene at 5:19 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7FaY8eLJAw)from the Incredibles really works. There's no trying to be funny sidekicks, no songs, but there is a good, solid character interaction based on an adult theme of trying to keep a marriage together. Its relatable as children who see their parents fight and as adults who have experienced a failing marriage. Granted, I don't think animation has to be for adults to be successful. Sometimes animated films try to be adult, as I feel Rock & Rule tried, and end up using the same cliches associated with entertainment for children. Also, Pixar still struggles with this a lot too and that's why I suggested the first half of Wal-E and not the whole movie. The shot direction of the first half reminds me of a Ridley Scott movie but it never really recovers from the second act sag and the resolution breaks the believablity of the human characters. Still its great to have that kind of diverse conversation about animation and even if a film doesn't work someone, it might click for another with no reason needed.

[dmgctrl]

I LOVED the Incredibles, and pretty much anything Pixar, but The Incredibles really stood out. My son liked it too (hes 5), but not as much as I did.

[johncbeggs]

This film to me was great I just watched it recently like last year and the story is not that hard to follow at all, I enjoyed watching this movie and also look at Moks mouth its incredible.
I think this film had some great scenes I cant get past how well Mok was animated though.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSGIZp9bBK4&feature=related

Watch from 3:10 where you can see him talk!!
:)

[Draconis]

Rock and Rule is one of my all-time favorite animated films. I don't see the issue with the animation though. It may not have been as smooth as many other studios, it had its own style and it was pretty charming. I couldn't quite follow the film when I was younger, but honestly...you didn't really have to. It was one of those movies where you can just let the experience take you for a ride and that it did! I kind of had issues with the character designs but after a while one gets used to them. Overall, I agree it's a very underrated movie.

[jeremyhopkins]

I really appreciate these different points of view. I think its easy to become jaded with a one world view of animation so its important to get feedback on from people who think differently. I still stand by my feelings and have given my reasons but again appreciate what you're both saying. Bottom line, its done its job if you found enjoyment.

[johncbeggs]

Since Im canadian this is an all time favourite, and nelvana studio is in vancouver I believe where I live. ;)

[jeremyhopkins]

Sorry, Nelvana is currently based out of Toronto. Studio B, Atomic, Bardel, Radical, and EA are based out of Vancouver area. At least those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. They also shared work with Mercury Filmworks in Vancouver on Ruby Gloom so that's why you might be confusing the location.

[johncbeggs]

damn,I thought so :)

[jeremyhopkins]

Yowsaa is a good company, working on clean up for Princess and the Frog, and when House of Cool was fully staffed they had some of the best designers around. Nelvana, along with the Corus Group, is umm.. interesting and I leave my opinion at that. I can admire their ambition at the time for creating Rock and Rule. It helped a lot of young Canadian talent get their start.

[Alexandra Poston]

Bottom line, its done its job if you found enjoyment.

Well said.

[DarlieB]

But I looked it up and theres quite a following for it. I found a trailer if anyone is interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFqLh2cL-_4

Also, there have been excellent comments about it over at youtube, including one written by "darliegodess" who claims to have been on the animation team.


That would be me =) I was on Mok with Robin Bud. Nice to see some people still remember it. Robins Mok work is still some of my most favorite animation period. He is brilliant and to be honest , one of the best leads I have ever worked with ( pretty much on par with Tony Fucile ) and that is saying a lot because I've worked with a lot of wonderful animators/directors including Don, who is pretty amazing . These are the kinds of people that make coming to work a joy despite whatever your economic/social circumstances.

If you get a chance you can check out my site tinybun.com . There is no R&R in my reel but thats because I had way too much stuff to put in . I was trying to keep it down to five minutes and ended up with ten.

[dmgctrl]

Great to have you here, DarlieB! Welcome to the forums. I hope you stick around for a while.

[jeremyhopkins]

Hi Darlie, it's really good to see you here! Thanks for setting the record straight about your work too. When I watched Rock and Rule, I was certain Angel was one of your characters - just like Dizzy felt very much like an early Charlie Bonifacio character. Though now that you mention it, considering how hard it must've been to draw Mok that consistently, it makes sense you were on that team. Do you know which character Wendy work on?

I agree, Robin is really great! I didn't have a chance to work under him but when I was on the second season of Gerald McBoing Boing, I was really grateful for his original direction. Mercury had a nice mix of young, talented animation supervisors and experienced designers/directors that made working there a lot of fun.

Actually I really liked your idea here (http://totald.blogspot.com/2007/02/little-more-of-it.html). For me, this fixes some of the issues I had with Rock and Rule and makes me want to see more.

[DNethery]

Darlie Goddess is Darlie Brewster or Dave Brewster then and was responsible for animating the lead male and female characters I think. Though I'm not sure if Nelvana was character or scene specific when they handed out work.

The female main character reminds me a lot of Darlie's work and she has some of the best animation in the movie.
Also you can find the whole movie on veoh but I didn't want to link to something that might encourage piracy.


Female lead "Angel" was mostly the work of Anne Marie Bardwell, if I recall.

I'm pretty sure Brewster was on the Mok crew with Robin Budd (lead) .

Rock & Rule reminds me in many ways of Richard Williams's Raggedy Ann and Andy : a film that is much more interesting for the behind-the-scenes making-of stories and the nascent talent that was nurtured and allowed to bloom somewhat on the production. Almost everyone (on R&R and Rag & Randy) went on to better things.



-----

EDIT: Doh ! I replied to Jeremy Hopkins' remark before I read the rest of the thread and just now saw that Darlie has already replied re: R&R .

[jeremyhopkins]

Female lead "Angel" was mostly the work of Anne Marie Bardwell, if I recall.
That makes sense - thanks David. I also found this article (http://www.fpsmagazine.com/feature/050607rockrule.php) which explains the development process.

[DarlieB]

Hi Dave , Jeremy and dmgctrl ,

I will say that I did do a few Angels in scenes where she was with Mok . Anne Marie who now in later life I consider one of my dearest friends would work as directing animator on those scenes. I love female characters, I understand them but no one would let me do them until Crysta in Ferngully (thanks to Tony Fucile) . I always got cast as men .


Interesting comparison Dave. I was smitten with Tissa Davids drawings at the time and was so sure that it would be a good film, I even I had the Joe Raposo soundtrack. There are just a few scenes that blew me away. Hal Ambro's Babbett "Poor Babett "" ( cleaned up by Williams , possibly one of the greatest pieces of animation ever but so short ) with Charlie Downs Sea Captain.

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, Arts very economic camel ,

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Williams Andy in "No Girls Toy" though he was missing some timing things the drawing was rather awesome ,

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Emerys Greedy .... but you know, one really needs to see these two films back to back. They were both musical but I feel the comparison ends there. R&R was directed and I felt Williams was almost unaware he was directing. It was a flawed arrangement that left Mr Williams jumping between three very distant studio's and their film suffered for it. Just for historical reasons it is good to watch with an objective eye.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6706642381871663196

There was a German screening of R&R and it ended up in a duel review of The Black Cauldren. They of course trashed Cauldren and praised R&R and that was the end of it till 25 years later when it was released on DVD. An interesting experience to see a year and a half of effort shelved for 25 years , then to have it carted out and enjoyed.

Anyway , I have scenes to do and a big deadline. I'll try and drop by from time to time when I am not a "slave of the man ". See yall.

Dars

[jtq3]

I loved R&R and I think I may still have the Marvel Comics adaptation of it somewhere. I loved the character design and the animation. I'm not going to pretend it was great cinema but, I appreciated the ambition and the attempt to continue moving animation out of the ghetto of the kiddie matinee (films of Ralph Bakshi and the first Heavy Metal were also very important to me as a young wannabe).

I can't sit through Raggedy Anne. For me there are some beautifully animated scenes and I am sort of geeky about the behind the scenes stuff but, it's tough to sit through that one. Back in those days it was not as easy as it is today to find information on animation production and the artists. John Canemaker's book on the production of RA&A was like "manna from heaven" for me but, when I finally got to see it on VHS video (again, the old days!) I was pretty disappointed.

Also, Rock and Rule has got Iggy Pop, Lou Reed and Cheap Trick on the sound track. C'mon...

[GdeSouza]

When I was younger and knew everything I didn't like Rock'n'Rule (I saw it at a special screening at the time)...although I was excited to see such talent in my city.

About a couple of years ago I found the commercial VHS of it at a thrift shop. When I watched it again I thought it had a Japanese animation science fiction feeling to it. As with the public, I appreciate it in a new light.

P.S: I dig how it predicted bad flash animation with its Uncle Mikey show.;)

[jeremyhopkins]

Thanks Gerald, you give me hope that I can continue to mellow out in years to come and take this film in the context in which it was intended to be viewed. The thing that has amazed me is how it resonates so well with audiences so many years later. I think that speaks to the talent and dedication of artists as well as the guts the directors & producers had to make such a unique film. Seeing so many young artists work so hard and really dedicate themselves to a film is humbling. Glad to see so many people enjoying it in this forum and hopefully, one day, I'll understand the appeal as well :)

[GdeSouza]

Oh I don't mean to infer lack of sophistication if one doesn't like the film. I didn't remember your post. I'm not very sophisticated :).
I'm not even so sure that the creators were so much ahead of their time as the mystique around this film by its lack of release built its interest. I do know I had a limited taste back then (Disney and NIMH was it in my books) and it would be years before I saw stuff like AKira, Cowboy Bebop and Manga; post apocalyptic themed Japanese cartoons, experienced vicariously through my kids mostly. SO when I saw my VHS version it was like hey, storywise, structurally, it's like those Japanese films. I tend to think that was accidental. But gaining that headspace to watch Japanese feature animation I guess helped me see it differently and it works in that headspace.