Technique Questions

[Don Bluth]

We understand that many students and probably some professionals have questions that may go unanswered for weeks/months at a time. The staff here at Don Bluth Animation are not shy and we don't want you to be either. We have opened this thread so you can ask questions regarding animation technique. We will not post all the answers in the forum but will include both the question and answer in the tips and tricks section of the website and use a graphic or video where appropriate.

With that in mind, start posting your questions here...

[CanAur]

My question:

I know that many animation programs have tools like "bone" systems.
So, you can create your skeleton, hand etc. Then apply it to your character for animation.
I heard some animators said that this tool is very helpfull for making exact motions.

BUT, i really think that using such things like this is a very pernicious habit, that never
help you improve your practical skills!

What can you say about this "helpfull" tool?

[Lauren C]

Maybe I am misunderstanding your question, but this "bone system", (if I'm understanding you correctly) is used for building characters in 3D, I believe it is commonly referred to as "Rigging". It's the process of making an internal skeleton for a character and is necessary for animating in 3D, a character can not animate properly with out it. So while you may think it is a bad thing it's actually a very necessary thing. And even though relying on computer to help with animation may seem lazy, I believe that if you understand the basic principles of animation, not even a computer will be able to help you. I hope that you will rethink the importance of rigging.

[CanAur]

No, I mean only 2D animation.

[lavallelee]

i think toon boom and the newest version of flash have bone systems now but overall it's not traditional animation, its putting pieces together and moving them like south park

don is teaching 2d traditional animation, true animating which each individual frame is drawn

i say stay away from the bone system so you don't pick up bad habits which are hard to loose :cool:

[CanAur]

Yes! More hand-drawn lines is more great art.

[zanekohler]

I think like any tool it has it's place and time on being useful. If you are doing a very stylized type of animation maybe you can get away with it. My personal feeling is it makes the animation look rigid. I know they are getting better with this...but where the joints connect when moving is what bugs me. Not so say I would never use it, but for the most part I would tend to stay away.

[AnimatorX]

Forward and inverse Kinematics can be very useful. Particularly if say, you want to plan out a run in the computer, but don't feel like animating the whole rtun first. You can use a "cut out" character to determine timing first.

[dmgctrl]

We have opened this thread so you can ask questions regarding animation technique. We will not post all the answers in the forum but will include both the question and answer in the tips and tricks section of the website and use a graphic or video where appropriate.

With that in mind, start posting your questions here...


Try to stay on topic here. Post questions. This is so when Don checks out the thread, he'll be able to see all the questions without digging through a long thread. Its great that everyone is so willing to chip in with their thoughts, but open another thread and keep this one tidy.

Thanks!

[Penumbra]

This is less a specific question than it is an entire can of worms, but here goes: What makes for good character design? :) Which is more important: overall form and silhouette, or surface-level detail? What common pitfalls or mistakes exist in the area of character design, and what methods can a designer use to avoid these mistakes?

[Alexandra Poston]

While rewatching a lot of Don Bluth films recently, I've noticed a common technique within them which makes objects appear to be glowing. The show girls from Banjo seem to glow and sparkle, falling coins glow in Dragon's layer, and the amulet and many other things within NIMH did the same. If you weren't using computer effects, how did you do that?

[DNethery]

I'm sure if Don Bluth answers this he'll have a much better explanation, but I'll give it a shot:

The glows were produced by shooting hand-drawn effects animation transferred to Kodalith sheets and shot with backlighting.

Kodalith was a type of black film material (like an animation cel, but instead of being clear it was an opaque black) , with portions of the black area cleared to allow light to shine through from a backlight under the animation camera stand. Multiple exposures could be made to get different levels of "glowing" effects . The regular animation was shot as normal with top lights, then the film would be backed up in the animation camera and a separate pass shot with the backlit material , exposed at a percentage . Filters and colored gels could be used to give the glowing effects soft edges or colors.

Keep in mind I never worked as an effects animator so I'm only describing the process very generally based on what I've observed in studios I've worked in over the years. I don't know if the process is explained in step-by-step detail anywhere in a book . (Maybe it is described in the recent book on Effects Animation by Joseph Gilland called "Elemental Magic" (http://www.amazon.com/Elemental-Magic-Special-Effects-Animation/dp/0240811631) but I don't know that for sure. You might want to check on Michel Gagne's site : Gagne International (http://www.gagneint.com/Final%20site/Animation/effects_animation.html) . He might have some descriptions of how those type of effects were produced. If you do some searches for terms like "Kodalith" and "backlit animation effects" you'll probably find it somewhere. Another material that was used was called "Exeter paper" which was a glossy black paper (completely opaque) which could have portions cut out of it with an exacto-knife to allow light to shine through from a backlight, or the opaque black portion of the Exeter paper could be used to create a matte on certain portions of a scene which could then be shot on a separate pass with a different exposure to create various light and shadow effects.

Of course today that sort of thing can be done digitally without shooting multiple passes under an animation camera. Programs such as TVP Animation have volumetric lighting, glows, etc. built into the FX mode of the program . See the following link for samples :

http://www.tvpaint.com/community/gallery/content/O_TVPaint_7_showreel_01.html (http://www.tvpaint.com/community/gallery/content/O_TVPaint_7_showreel_01.html" rel="nofollow)

or just poke around in the TVP Gallery (http://www.tvpaint.com/v2/content/article/community/gallery.php" rel="nofollow)for additional examples and you'll see backlit glowing type of effects that can be done.

Other programs have those type of efx filters and options too . TVP is just the one I'm the most familiar with.

[JayTea]

I find it hard to frame this as a single question or two except: What are you looking for from reference? And what to watch out for?

The following is context.

I remember one of the earliest things I had to do as an assistant animator was to tape-up photos printed from live action video onto animation paper for John Pomeroy to use as reference. The scene was for Rock-A-Doodle. It was Goldie reacting to Edmond surprising her at her makeup mirror.

One of the things John had me do was to mark what images I felt were the extremes. That got rather confusing because, of course, every single part moves at its own pace. Elements of what could be one extreme would be spread out over three to four video frames. He never commented weather my mark-up was of any use to him.

As an animator, I was given live action reference to follow, too. While I did attempt to "push" the poses and generally got the characters on-model, the results were all too often lackluster. One of the worst examples of this was one scene from the pansy dance sequence in Troll. I remember showing it to John and all I can recall him saying about it was "You put a lot of thought into this, didn't you?"
I'm sure we both knew it didn't have an ounce of life in it. But I'd been too long on the scene already and he let it go at that.

[Don Bluth]

I find it hard to frame this as a single question or two except: What are you looking for from reference? And what to watch out for?

The following is context.

I remember one of the earliest things I had to do as an assistant animator was to tape-up photos printed from live action video onto animation paper for John Pomeroy to use as reference. The scene was for Rock-A-Doodle. It was Goldie reacting to Edmond surprising her at her makeup mirror.

One of the things John had me do was to mark what images I felt were the extremes. That got rather confusing because, of course, every single part moves at its own pace. Elements of what could be one extreme would be spread out over three to four video frames. He never commented weather my mark-up was of any use to him.

As an animator, I was given live action reference to follow, too. While I did attempt to "push" the poses and generally got the characters on-model, the results were all too often lackluster. One of the worst examples of this was one scene from the pansy dance sequence in Troll. I remember showing it to John and all I can recall him saying about it was "You put a lot of thought into this, didn't you?"
I'm sure we both knew it didn't have an ounce of life in it. But I'd been too long on the scene already and he let it go at that.

I appreciate your thinking and analyzation of the study of live action. I have found that from nature springs forth all kinds of inspiration. Live photography is never meant to be merely copied; not at all. It is meant to inspire. The key word to remember here is caricature. For example you see how an actor acts a scene, and in your version of it you must either caricature it or deviate from the performance and put something better in its place. "Stats" are not there for you to trace. If you trace them, they will appear sluggish and lifeless. I remember the pansy dance. The flowers were supposed to be tap dancing. If the animator had known how to tap, you could have thrown out the "stats" and danced your character with ease. Otherwise, Let a dancer help you get there.

[Don Bluth]

This is less a specific question than it is an entire can of worms, but here goes: What makes for good character design? :) Which is more important: overall form and silhouette, or surface-level detail? What common pitfalls or mistakes exist in the area of character design, and what methods can a designer use to avoid these mistakes?

All Character designs are symbolic; they represent something in the real world, either an inanimate object or something living. Most of us tend to forget that principle. A good character design has to work on many levels. First and foremost, it must convey a feeling. Let me say that again. IT MUST CONVEY A FEELING! Second, the lines and shapes that define the character must be pleasing to the eye, and all serve "the feeling." Third, the pose and the silhouette must serve the feeling. The surest method I know to ensure you design success is to put down your pencil and give some thought to what you are about to draw. See the Tutorial called " Getting the Feeling." Answer this question before you pick up your pencil again: "What is my character thinking?"

[Don Bluth]

This is less a specific question than it is an entire can of worms, but here goes: What makes for good character design? :) Which is more important: overall form and silhouette, or surface-level detail? What common pitfalls or mistakes exist in the area of character design, and what methods can a designer use to avoid these mistakes?
Okay, I'm sorry that this answer to your question is so late in coming, but better late than never, I always say. What makes a good character design? There is no hard and fast rule. What looks good to one set of eyes may be horrible to another. You should be asking what I believe is a similar question, "What makes people interesting?" It's surely their personalities with all the strange and funny things they do. As graphic artists we often fall into the trap of focusing on the physical design whereas, deciding what is going on in your character's brain and heart would be a more successful approach. For example, Why is WALLE a successful character? Why is he so appealing? He lives in a garbage heap and tries to make the best of it. He's lonely.

[Moneyguns]

Do you ever get into one of those situations where you want to draw something and know matter how hard you try it just looks terrible. I got in this situation just the other day. I was trying to give a character I made up hair like Kurt Russle, but I just couldn't figure it out. I even took a look at how you guys drew hair in Titan A.E.
My guess is that when I first thought of the idea I said, "Hay that's a good idea" and just went to go draw it. I think I should have waited a little while and just thought of how I should do it first.

[CanAur]

Yes

http://www.donbluthanimation.com/tips.php?c=1&t=12

[Moneyguns]

1) When drawing, are you supposed to be in a calm collected mood?

2) If a character is supposed to be a representation of something from the real world how do you make up something no one has seen before?

[Don Bluth]

1) When drawing, are you supposed to be in a calm collected mood?

2) If a character is supposed to be a representation of something from the real world how do you make up something no one has seen before?

1) Not necessarily. You're supposed to be in a place where you can feel something about the world you live in. An artist, simply put, is a person that reveals to us what he/she experiences in the world we all live in. Some things we have in common but there are myriads of things where we have different opinions. Variety is the spice of life. God help us if we were all alike.

2) What you experience in the real world is uniquely you. The rest of us like seeing your version of it because it gives us insights we never thought of.

[BrioCyrain]

1st. Do you think people should draw characters they already know, or expirement with drawing people they've originally created.

2nd. Do you think some superhero comics or cartoons make the characters too muscular/buff?

[Moneyguns]

1) If someone wanted to be a great artist would all they have to do is just be vary observant to the world around them?

[Don Bluth]

1) If someone wanted to be a great artist would all they have to do is just be vary observant to the world around them?

2) I heard that in show biz by the time someone finishes a movie they're making, they are so sick of it they don't even want to watch it. Is this the same with animation?

Certainly being observant of the world around you is part of the solution, but I think greatness as an artist has more to do with what you have to say about the world around you. What insights can you give to all of us that will help us to live happier and more fulfilling lives. Perhaps your point of view,(POV) can increase my vision. Art will tend to instruct the soul, or enlarge its understanding. Art losses its power when its sole purpose becomes commercial. Then, it turns into an industry.

[BlazingCoral]

I think this is the right place to ask this...

While I currently have no plans of going into animation I'd like to at least give it a shot. I have no prior experience to animating, unless you count making a quick animation on a site that had a program that would let you draw frame-by-frame animation, though IIRC the site no longer exists.

For a newbie like me, what kind of animation should I start with drawing (like an idle pose, facial expression change, lip sync, walk cycle, etc.), and what should I animate it with? I have a free drawing program called Pencil, but would it be better if I tried traditional animation with a pencil and paper first instead?

[johncbeggs]

I think this is the right place to ask this...

While I currently have no plans of going into animation I'd like to at least give it a shot. I have no prior experience to animating, unless you count making a quick animation on a site that had a program that would let you draw frame-by-frame animation, though IIRC the site no longer exists.

For a newbie like me, what kind of animation should I start with drawing (like an idle pose, facial expression change, lip sync, walk cycle, etc.), and what should I animate it with? I have a free drawing program called Pencil, but would it be better if I tried traditional animation with a pencil and paper first instead?

I may know the answer to this :), Don Bluth had told us to start with the bouncing ball, he has the video in his tips and it teaches you a bit.
heres the link:)
http://www.donbluthanimation.com/Animation/_Bouncing_Ball.html

But I bet it would be really be more helpful buying the DVD!

I guess my question is
- What is the process running through your head while you are animating, are you seeing one frame at a time or all as a whole.- sorry if its kinda a confusing question :)

[Lifed]

The type of animation you do is up to you. If you have a good tablet, you may want to try toonboom, plastic animation paper, or flash.

[Snapai]

I noticed that there were perspective grids on the Cyber Garage storyboard panels. Didn't occur to me that they were anything special, until I was reading Drawn To Life today, and ran across this bit:
One thing that is imperative when drawing a figure or a cartoon in a scene of animation is to be aware of the "grid" that the layout department has established. That grid is like a vinyl tile floor, whose lines proceed to one of two vanishing points.

Previously I had read that layout drawings were just a line drawing of the background. Do they usually have a perspective grid on the floor, when the character's going to be standing on or otherwise interacting with it?

I mean, it makes sense, I've just never heard of it before! May have to try this on my own work. :D

[DNethery]

I noticed that there were perspective grids on the Cyber Garage storyboard panels.

Previously I had read that layout drawings were just a line drawing of the background. Do they usually have a perspective grid on the floor, when the character's going to be standing on or otherwise interacting with it?

I mean, it makes sense, I've just never heard of it before! May have to try this on my own work. :D


Yes, the perspective grid provided by the layout dept. is very helpful for maintaining the proper placement of the character in the layout (so the feet are planted solidly with the character "well grounded" and the movements of the character match the perspective of the layout.) .

Don's story sketches for the Cyber Garage Project illustrate this perfectly:

http://donbluthanimation.com/cyber_garage/storyboards/story_13.jpg

When story sketches are this well-thought out they can be blown up and used as the basis for the final
layout with very little changes.

[GdeSouza]

When one does a "treadmill" walk in feature animation are the increments even, as adhering to a laid-out foot guide? Or is the walk just animated and then the background pan is figured out to accommodate the foot on the ground?

[Don Bluth]

When one does a "treadmill" walk in feature animation are the increments even, as adhering to a laid-out foot guide? Or is the walk just animated and then the background pan is figured out to accommodate the foot on the ground?

The increments are even and are the same as the pan background increments. These increments are usually measured in 100ths of an inch. If they are not exactly identical to the background movement, the feet would give the impression they are slipping on the ground.

[Don Bluth]

Yes, the perspective grid provided by the layout dept. is very helpful for maintaining the proper placement of the character in the layout (so the feet are planted solidly with the character "well grounded" and the movements of the character match the perspective of the layout.) .

Don's story sketches for the Cyber Garage Project illustrate this perfectly:

http://donbluthanimation.com/cyber_garage/storyboards/story_13.jpg

When story sketches are this well-thought out they can be blown up and used as the basis for the final
layout with very little changes.

Good analogy!

[BrioCyrain]

The increments are even and are the same as the pan background increments. These increments are usually measured in 100ths of an inch. If they are not exactly identical to the background movement, the feet would give the impression they are slipping on the ground.

Agreed, or either moonwalking or doing a sliding motion.

I have to say people walking in real animation it seems kind of interesting how these characters walk evenly but also walk unevenly because some characters don't seem to carry a "pace" very well like any normal human being.

I find it wierd when I went back to a Sega Genesis game called "Streets of Rage" and seeing the characters(which games back then only had like 2-3 frames per animation) kind of slide across the floor like their were doing some kind of "dance walk", but it was really just their normal walking animation.

OA1vV5HZxFo

As you can see Axel's(the guy with the blonde hair) seems to be walking in a kind of smooth sliding motion.

I hope I didn't interfere with the thread while making this point.

[jeremyhopkins]

Thank you for your observations BrioCyrain but just to keep things a bit more organized for Don and readers, lets try to keep this thread to technique questions and limit extraneous discussion. Thanks!

[OwenWelsh]

Hey Don,

I'm going to start my Sasha walk cycle soon and I want to do the march. What do you think about having her do the walk on her toes? She is female, I thought it might look interesting; energetic, feminine and light-footed.... however it might not have enough punch. What do you think? I'm open to opinions from everyone else too :). Any thoughts?

[GdeSouza]

The increments are even and are the same as the pan background increments. These increments are usually measured in 100ths of an inch. If they are not exactly identical to the background movement, the feet would give the impression they are slipping on the ground.

Thank you, Mr. Bluth.
ANd now if I may rephrase a question I asked on the other thread:
Are we expected to include a pan bg with our current walk assignments? I am not clear about that. If so, is it supplied through a layout or storyboard panel blow-up?
Thanks again.

[Don Bluth]

Hey Don,

I'm going to start my Sasha walk cycle soon and I want to do the march. What do you think about having her do the walk on her toes? She is female, I thought it might look interesting; energetic, feminine and light-footed.... however it might not have enough punch. What do you think? I'm open to opinions from everyone else too :). Any thoughts?

Throughout the short, Sasha will be marching. If you can achieve an energetic march (on 12's) it will be very useful for everyone else. For sure, Sasha should be feminine but she will also have a fierce determination in the final outcome of the story.

[Don Bluth]

Thank you, Mr. Bluth.
ANd now if I may rephrase a question I asked on the other thread:
Are we expected to include a pan bg with our current walk assignments? I am not clear about that. If so, is it supplied through a layout or storyboard panel blow-up?
Thanks again.

We will post the pieces of artwork that you will need to download and assemble your own pan background on bottom pegs using scotch tap (green box). For this, you will need to purchase Peg Hole Strips (HEADER STRIPS)from Cartoon Colour; $9.00 for 100 . The other option you have is to draw your own pan background, but it also must be on bottom pegs.

[Moneyguns]

Is there no such thing as a bad drawing as long as people know what the drawing is representing?

I've noticed that eyes on cartoon characters don't move like people's do. They stretch and seem to change shape a lot. I'm having a hard time drawing eye's because reference from the real world doesn't really help because no ones eye's do that. How are you supposed to know what shape the eye's will be for each facial expression?

Thanks

[Rodney]

Is there no such thing as a bad drawing as long as people know what the drawing is representing?

I'm living proof that there is such a thing as bad drawings.
Others may recognize what it represents but when they start with something like, "Thats cool... but what is that thing...?" Thats generally my clue. ;)

It is interesting to me that a simple drawing from a child can carry all the power it needs to convey a story yet some drawings labored over for days can lose all sensibility.

If I understand you correctly, I like your underlying premise that 'representation is key'. Thats important I think; how do we present an action or activity with clarity.

Concerning the eyes, I'm not sure if you are talking about the whole shape of the eyes or concerned with one particular aspect of them. I would suggest keeping them as simple as possible yet direct the thoughts of the character through them.

It may help to think of eyes in terms of the Bouncing ball exercises, or a ball within a ball if you please. The inner ball active with the outer ball following within the scope of 'reality'. The pupil confined within the outter white of the eye but trying its best to leave.

The muscles of the face also will force the shape of the eyes to change.
A frown pushing down to squash the shape of the eye as it blinks.

I've noticed that eyes on cartoon charictors don't move like people's do.

There are exceptions to every rule but you may want to post an example of what you mean. Even in cartoon realities the eye usually behaves as ours do. (Exaggerated Tex Avery wolve's eyes popping impossibly out of their heads provide an important exception to that rule)

[Moneyguns]

There are exceptions to every rule but you may want to post an example of what you mean.

http://static.flickr.com/27/49979256_f55d34b52f.jpg

http://www.thegremlin.com/Website%20Images/SB/16188sb.jpg
Most cartoon eyes tend to look like eggs. In the real world they don't look like that at all.

[Hana]

Eyes will vary depending on what the character portrays. Younger, cute characters like animal and children tend to have that egg shape. Female characters like disney princess' have human like shaped eyes that are exaggerated and larger. Villains on the oether hand usually have smaller slit like eyes. There are always exceptions to the rules though and it really depends on what you are trying to portray. Eyes are very important to get right as that's what people connect with first in an image.

http://www.coolfreeimages.net/images/disney/disney_07.jpg
http://movie-poster.ws/movies/wallpaper/cartoon/disney/villains.jpg
http://costumzee.com/view/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/disney-princess.gif
Sorry about the glittering. It was rather hard to find one that didn't and also showed their faces clearly.

[Moneyguns]

How are you supposed to know what shape the eye's are supposed to be for each emotion. (Not including eyebrows) That's what I meant to say.

[OwenWelsh]

How are you supposed to know what shape the eye's are supposed to be for each emotion. (Not including eyebrows) That's what I meant to say.

I highly recommend this book. I constantly go to it for reference.

http://www.amazon.com/Artists-Complete-Guide-Facial-Expression/dp/0823016285

[Rodney]

How are you supposed to know what shape the eye's are supposed to be for each emotion. (Not including eyebrows) That's what I meant to say.

Outside of the basic shape of the eye (as designed for your character) its near impossible to isolate it from the rest of the face. Don't exclude the eyebrows... use them. Use the cheeks too.

When it comes to the limits of the shapes you might want to consider the underlying surface (bone structure) that they eye is seated in. Any change of shape should work within the confines of this general socket/shape and the muscles. Even the extremes that push it to the limits follow this general pattern of constraint.

Even with the limitations of bone and muscle people can get some pretty odd shapes out the human eye. Truth can be stranger than caricature!

There is a lot of information available on the physically manifested traits of emotion. One of the popular areas of study is that of Dr. Paul Ekman (http://www.paulekman.com/) who has made quite a name for himself of late. Perhaps you've seen the show based on his studies on the Fox network called 'Lie to Me'?

A recommendation; don't isolate the eyes from the rest of the face and body. Rather use the eyes as the emotive focus (the thinker'er) of the character. The eyes, face and body act out and support what the character is thinking or trying to conceal.

Start with your basic shape and squash and stretch to convey the emotive power of the face.

[Moneyguns]

Do cartoons have motion blurs?

[Rodney]

Do cartoons have motion blurs?

They sure do.

Motion Blur is a broad category with a long and varied history so you may want to elaborate a little more.

Squash and Stretch itself (perhaps stretch more than squash) is for all intents and purposes... motion blur.

In the early days of hand drawn animation it was common to draw extra trailing lines to leave a faint impression of the object left behind. This was a great aid in conveying the sense of motion.

A general rule of thumb for blurring would be to accent the darker colors which by nature would leave their image imprint behind. Lighter colors would then fade out more quickly.

In american animation much of the motion blur has evolved away from drawing of extra lines. Japanese animation/anime has evolved in a different direction where we can still see the lines.

In his new book, 'Character Animation Crash Course', Eric Goldberg discusses some of these effects. His Chapter 20 titles them 'Gimmicks!'.

It may be an oversimplification but I'd say these are all various aspects of Follow Through. Here are a few things that fall into the category: Blur, Swish, Wiggle, Trembling, Vibrations, Staggering, Shaking, Distortion, Bops, Twacks, (seeing) Stars... Roger Rabbit's Tweating Birds, Crunches, Dust, Clouds, Smoke, Puffing Exhaust, Explosions, Smears, Multiple Drawings, Stretched/Elongated Forms, Pinwheel/Rotation... the list goes on and on.

Each of these effects serves a purpose and its important to consider that purpose when using motion blur.
Most of these (motion blur) effects are designed to aid the eye is seeing where something has been and help the viewer anticipate where it is going or has gone. Perhaps most importantly the effect is used when one frame cannot convey the speed of an act or motion alone. So... an afterimage... a lingering effect... or a blur of the movement is added for clarity to sell the motion.

For those interested in a historical look at the effect I recommend taking a look at the book Walt Disney claimed to have studied, "Animated Cartoons" by E.G. Lutz. If nothing else this book helps us understand that animation was already pretty well understood when Walt Disney took pencil in hand. Much of these motion effects can be see in today's animation classified under special effects.

I know I've strayed off your question of motion blur. Apologies there. I thought this would be a better way of answering your question than 'Yes'. ;)

[Moneyguns]

They sure do.

Motion Blur is a broad category with a long and varied history so you may want to elaborate a little more.

Squash and Stretch itself (perhaps stretch more than squash) is for all intents and purposes... motion blur.

In the early days of hand drawn animation it was common to draw extra trailing lines to leave a faint impression of the object left behind. This was a great aid in conveying the sense of motion.

A general rule of thumb for blurring would be to accent the darker colors which by nature would leave their image imprint behind. Lighter colors would then fade out more quickly.

In american animation much of the motion blur has evolved away from drawing of extra lines. Japanese animation/anime has evolved in a different direction where we can still see the lines.

In his new book, 'Character Animation Crash Course', Eric Goldberg discusses some of these effects. His Chapter 20 titles them 'Gimmicks!'.

It may be an oversimplification but I'd say these are all various aspects of Follow Through. Here are a few things that fall into the category: Blur, Swish, Wiggle, Trembling, Vibrations, Staggering, Shaking, Distortion, Bops, Twacks, (seeing) Stars... Roger Rabbit's Tweating Birds, Crunches, Dust, Clouds, Smoke, Puffing Exhaust, Explosions, Smears, Multiple Drawings, Stretched/Elongated Forms, Pinwheel/Rotation... the list goes on and on.

Each of these effects serves a purpose and its important to consider that purpose when using motion blur.
Most of these (motion blur) effects are designed to aid the eye is seeing where something has been and help the viewer anticipate where it is going or has gone. Perhaps most importantly the effect is used when one frame cannot convey the speed of an act or motion alone. So... an afterimage... a lingering effect... or a blur of the movement is added for clarity to sell the motion.

For those interested in a historical look at the effect I recommend taking a look at the book Walt Disney claimed to have studied, "Animated Cartoons" by E.G. Lutz. If nothing else this book helps us understand that animation was already pretty well understood when Walt Disney took pencil in hand. Much of these motion effects can be see in today's animation classified under special effects.

I know I've strayed off your question of motion blur. Apologies there. I thought this would be a better way of answering your question than 'Yes'. ;)

Dange dude! You wrote me a novle, but my question is defunitly answered. Thanks.;)

[Don Bluth]

I'm living proof that there is such a thing as bad drawings.
Others may recognize what it represents but when they start with something like, "Thats cool... but what is that thing...?" Thats generally my clue. ;)

It is interesting to me that a simple drawing from a child can carry all the power it needs to convey a story yet some drawings labored over for days can lose all sensibility.

If I understand you correctly, I like your underlying premise that 'representation is key'. Thats important I think; how do we present an action or activity with clarity.

Concerning the eyes, I'm not sure if you are talking about the whole shape of the eyes or concerned with one particular aspect of them. I would suggest keeping them as simple as possible yet direct the thoughts of the character through them.

It may help to think of eyes in terms of the Bouncing ball exercises, or a ball within a ball if you please. The inner ball active with the outer ball following within the scope of 'reality'. The pupil confined within the outter white of the eye but trying its best to leave.

The muscles of the face also will force the shape of the eyes to change.
A frown pushing down to squash the shape of the eye as it blinks.



There are exceptions to every rule but you may want to post an example of what you mean. Even in cartoon realities the eye usually behaves as ours do. (Exaggerated Tex Avery wolve's eyes popping impossibly out of their heads provide an important exception to that rule)

Well said... Your analysis is great. I would remind you and Moneyguns that the goal of animation is to caricature reality and not duplicate it. The live action camera will see things as we see things. The cartoonists job is to exaggerate reality to help us see something new inspired only by the real world.

[Rodney]

Thanks Don.

(Forgive me this geeky fan moment... Isn't it too cool to be able to talk animation with THE DON BLUTH!)

I would remind you and Moneyguns that the goal of animation is to caricature reality and not duplicate it. The live action camera will see things as we see things. The cartoonists job is to exaggerate reality to help us see something new inspired only by the real world.

When I was a kid wanted to be a cartoonist. Besides just liking the word, those guys always seemed to be having a whole lot more fun.

Its good to live in reality... we really need to do that... but it sure is fun to visit those wonderfully imaginary worlds.

[Moneyguns]

Do you have to be having fun when you draw or can you just draw something just because you want to see something you imagined?

How do you make drawing fun?

[Moneyguns]

I have a vary hard time imagining characters as cartoons and can only see them as live action in my head. It makes it really hard to draw some times. Do you have any advice?
Thanks.

[Don Bluth]

Is there no such thing as a bad drawing as long as people know what the drawing is representing?

I've noticed that eyes on cartoon characters don't move like people's do. They stretch and seem to change shape a lot. I'm having a hard time drawing eye's because reference from the real world doesn't really help because no ones eye's do that. How are you supposed to know what shape the eye's will be for each facial expression?

Thanks

Ask yourself this question. Is there such a thing as bad music? Is there such a thing as bad food? I suppose beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, but what's beautiful to one person is ugly to another. As an artist you must have likes and dislikes. As a student, teachers will expose you to a great many ideas. You will have to decide what is good and what is bad for yourself. I can only tell you what I think.

[jeremyhopkins]

I'm curious what your process is for developing great secondary action/gestures(not just overlapping action but secondary acting ideas) that support the primary action. Do you feel that primary action serves the plot while secondary action/gestures serve the theme? I found that the best scenes tend to have strong secondary acting ideas. The primary acting is like the dinner while secondary acting is the spice. It can be taken away and not affect the meal but with it, it gives the extra zing that really makes something special.

[Don Bluth]

I'm curious what your process is for developing great secondary action/gestures(not just overlapping action but secondary acting ideas) that support the primary action. Do you feel that primary action serves the plot while secondary action/gestures serve the theme? I found that the best scenes tend to have strong secondary acting ideas. The primary acting is like the dinner while secondary acting is the spice. It can be taken away and not affect the meal but with it, it gives the extra zing that really makes something special.


Jeremy,
I hope I can answer your question to your satisfaction. The main purpose of an animated feature is to tell a story. Anything that tangents weakens the story. In fact, I believe that every scene in the movie has a purpose and a focus to support the story. I have seen so many animators shift the focus to their animation by over animating a scene or turning it into a graphics exercise. Achieving characters that we really care about is the real challenge and graphics can sometimes get in the way.

Secondary actions are natural phenomena; they are things that don't have a life of their own but are obliged to follow the primary actions. Of course, if you make your scene to active with secondary actions, you could blur the focal point that your scene is trying to communicate. The novice animator always over animates. Gesturing, on the other hand, is a part of acting. An actor gestures to give emphasis to his dialog. This discussion is really about communicating with the audience. You can't communicate clearly with visual noise in your scene. Don't move elements on your character that pull your attention away from the focus of the scene. Those extraneous movements are visual noise.

One more thing wort mentioning is text and subtext. The text is the dialog and the subtext is the true meaning of the characters actions. An easy example of this is often played out in love scenes. In the dialog, the man and woman are fighting which covers the subtext, the fact that they are in love.

Hope this make sense.

Don

[jeremyhopkins]

Thank you, that makes sense.
I have seen so many animators shift the focus to their animation by over animating a scene or turning it into a graphics exercise. Achieving characters that we really care about is the real challenge and graphics can sometimes get in the way.
I'll keep this in mind while I'm working on my scenes for the CGP. Thanks!

[arif]

my Question is..

what is the different of overlapping action and secondary action??

arif:mad:

[jeremyhopkins]

Sorry Arif, this is my fault for using different terms or perhaps making up my own terms. Overlapping action or secondary action can be movements that don't arrive at the same place at once. A feather in a cap or a bouncing ball with tail is an example of this where the motivating force, the person or ball, has a lighter trailing force that will finish its movement after the motivating or primary force has finished. It's a nice way to keep the scene alive but it is more of a mechanical thing rather than a way of acting. (Though it can be used for acting as well)

What I was referring to was secondary action in terms of gestures. There are primary gestures that are necessary to tell the story. A secondary gesture can add to the scene but if it's taken away, the story points are still clear. In live action, Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon are great examples of actors who incorporate secondary gestures that add to their scenes. If you check out the Odd Couple, both characters are unique and have primary and secondary gestures that fit their personalities. In animation, Milt's Shere Kahn is a great example of a character that uses secondary gestures (enters at 1:57)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T0I5UepXMA
http://www.xsheet.net/pictures/extra/kahn01.jpg
In this case the scratching of his cheek would be the secondary gesture. It can be taken away and the scene would still work but with it in, it adds to the tension and sense that Kahn is dangerous and condescending because of his power.
http://www.xsheet.net/pictures/extra/kahn02.jpg
This one is my favorite because Kahn is so in control of this scene that Kaa's method of attack is considered a game. Here the secondary gesture would be sticking the claw in Kaa's nose, it can be taken away and the scene would still make sense but with it, it adds to sense of power and he literally thumbs his nose at Kaa's attempt to control him the way he did to Mowgli.
http://www.xsheet.net/pictures/extra/kahn03.jpg
Same things here.

The danger with secondary gestures or overlapping action/anything considered secondary action is that they can take away from the primary action or the important information a scene has to get across which is what Don described in his previous post. If you want to see a good example of those mistakes in action, take a look at my fox walk & my scene for the CGP. The fox walk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7fLuIZ9d2A) is a good example of over animating the overlapping action like the arms, the feather in the cap and tail while my scene (http://www.donbluthanimation.com/videos.php?showvideo=14) for the CGP is a good example of over animating the secondary gestures - in this case the hands pulling the ears and distracting the viewers eye from the face.
So to sum up overlapping action is usually more mechanical while secondary gestures are more acting based and both can be classified under secondary action because they add but shouldn't overpower the main thought or point of that scene. If they do, then the scene either has to be rethought or the action taken out.

[arif]

Thanks Jeremy for your nice briefing Regarding Overlapping action and Secondary action....and don be sorry as for your fault(????) i have learn t some animation tips......:laughing:
Arif :rolleyes:

[Don Bluth]

Sorry Arif, this is my fault for using different terms or perhaps making up my own terms. Overlapping action or secondary action can be movements that don't arrive at the same place at once. A feather in a cap or a bouncing ball with tail is an example of this where the motivating force, the person or ball, has a lighter trailing force that will finish its movement after the motivating or primary force has finished. It's a nice way to keep the scene alive but it is more of a mechanical thing rather than a way of acting. (Though it can be used for acting as well)

What I was referring to was secondary action in terms of gestures. There are primary gestures that are necessary to tell the story. A secondary gesture can add to the scene but if it's taken away, the story points are still clear. In live action, Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon are great examples of actors who incorporate secondary gestures that add to their scenes. If you check out the Odd Couple, both characters are unique and have primary and secondary gestures that fit their personalities. In animation, Milt's Shere Kahn is a great example of a character that uses secondary gestures (enters at 1:57)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T0I5UepXMA
http://www.xsheet.net/pictures/extra/kahn01.jpg
In this case the scratching of his cheek would be the secondary gesture. It can be taken away and the scene would still work but with it in, it adds to the tension and sense that Kahn is dangerous and condescending because of his power.
http://www.xsheet.net/pictures/extra/kahn02.jpg
This one is my favorite because Kahn is so in control of this scene that Kaa's method of attack is considered a game. Here the secondary gesture would be sticking the claw in Kaa's nose, it can be taken away and the scene would still make sense but with it, it adds to sense of power and he literally thumbs his nose at Kaa's attempt to control him the way he did to Mowgli.
http://www.xsheet.net/pictures/extra/kahn03.jpg
Same things here.

The danger with secondary gestures or overlapping action/anything considered secondary action is that they can take away from the primary action or the important information a scene has to get across which is what Don described in his previous post. If you want to see a good example of those mistakes in action, take a look at my fox walk & my scene for the CGP. The fox walk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7fLuIZ9d2A) is a good example of over animating the overlapping action like the arms, the feather in the cap and tail while my scene (http://www.donbluthanimation.com/videos.php?showvideo=14) for the CGP is a good example of over animating the secondary gestures - in this case the hands pulling the ears and distracting the viewers eye from the face.
So to sum up overlapping action is usually more mechanical while secondary gestures are more acting based and both can be classified under secondary action because they add but shouldn't overpower the main thought or point of that scene. If they do, then the scene either has to be rethought or the action taken out.


Very Good....I couldn't have said it better.
I've always believed overlap and secondary actions are synonyms. Secondary gestures are part of the acting world.

[Moneyguns]

I've been having a hard time aligning pupil's on the eye's of my drawing's lately. Is there a technique for that or do I just need more practice?
Thanks

[arif]

Regarding using Metronome....

how does it use???i have no clue....i have searched it in my local market.....but i didnot find it here.....Mr Don has used it for timing....but, i want to know how does it use it..

Regards,
Arif:)

[Don Bluth]

Regarding using Metronome....

how does it use???i have no clue....i have searched it in my local market.....but i didnot find it here.....Mr Don has used it for timing....but, i want to know how does it use it..

Regards,
Arif:)

The metronome displays various rhythms. Everything in life moves to a rhythm. If a character is running and his foot hits the ground every 8 frames, I would listen to the 8 frame beat on the metronome while I imagined the run in my head. With your exposure sheet, it is easy to mark at every 8 frame interval. Each mark would represent where one of the characters feet would hit the ground. You need a metronome if you are to become an animator.

[zanekohler]

http://webmetronome.com/

Here is a virtual one to get by with until you can get a real one.

[lavallelee]

That is funny zane, i was going to post an online one!

http://www.metronomeonline.com/

here is the one i use, it was made in flash

[zanekohler]

I guess we are ..... "in sync" ;)

[arif]

Thank you all for your kind reply

Arif:laughing::laughing:

[Rodney]

Thanks for posting those links guys.
Zane I really like the one you posted.
Whats particularly cool about it is that you can save the beats and point someone else to it so they can hear it too:

http://webmetronome.com/?t=220&b=12&a=100000000000
(Just hit start)

So this particular URL sets up 220 beats a minute with a 12 beat cycle and an accent on beat one. Nice.

So you could build a set of your favorites without even going to the site (in Excel, HTML or whatever) and then launch them as the need arises.

Pretty cool.


Edit: Although in listening it doesn't seem to be getting the fastest beats right.

[arif]

hai guys ..
i have found this link...see if it will helpful

http://www.stopmotionworks.com/stopwatch.htm

Regards,
arif

[arif]

hai guys ..

i have found this link...see if it will helpful

http://www.stopmotionworks.com/stopwatch.htm

Regards,
arif

[Moneyguns]

Hay, I finaly have another question again!

Hay Don, when you visualize the character's you draw do you see exactly what they look like in your head?

Thanks

[arif]

Hay, I finaly have another question again!

Hay Don, when you visualize the character's you draw do you see adjectly what they look like in your head?

Thanks




this is the same question i was thinking about.....i am trying to follow the art rules from Mr.Don bluth(Getting the feeling and Draw as you please)..but, what i see my head , i cant represent it hundred percent on paper..i would also like to know Don`s answer regarding your question..

Arif.:rolleyes:

[Benjy]

Hay, I finaly have another question again!

Hay Don, when you visualize the character's you draw do you see igsactly what they look like in your head?

Thanks

Wow, Moneyguns! Spell checker comes in really handy for situations like this one. No offense intended...

[Moneyguns]

Wow, Moneyguns! Spell checker comes in really handy for situations like this one. No offense intended...

I did use one. What's spelt wrong?

I did notice on Arif's post it says "adjectly." My post doesn't say that if that's what you noticed.

[jeremyhopkins]

Hay, I finaly have another question again!

Hay Don, when you visualize the character's you draw do you see igsactly what they look like in your head?

Thanks

This is a great question! My spelling and grammar hasn't been perfect on this forum either. I understood what you meant even if exactly is spelled wrong.

[Moneyguns]

This is a great question! My spelling and grammar hasn't been perfect on this forum either. I understood what you meant even if exactly is spelled wrong.

Thank you Jeremy. It's fixed now.

[arif]

Thank you Jeremy. It's fixed now.

hahhaahaah..i just support money with his question and did again spelling mistake......hahahhahha..no probs..we are all know what is the meaning of this question.....

Arif:)

[Don Bluth]

Hay, I finaly have another question again!

Hay Don, when you visualize the character's you draw do you see exactly what they look like in your head?

Thanks

For the most part, I do see the character in my head before I draw it on paper. I don't always get it right the first time but eventually I find what I see in my head on paper and sometimes something better.

[Moneyguns]

For the most part, I do see the character in my head before I draw it on paper. I don't always get it right the first time but eventually I find what I see in my head on paper and sometimes something better.

Do the emotion's one feels in everyday life affect what he/she can and can't visualize/draw?

For example, if a person lives a life that's really happy and filled with love would it be easier for him/her to visualize/draw happy thing's and more difficult for him/her to visualize/draw negative or sad thing's?

Thanks

[Seth]

Hey Don,

This probably isn't that great of a question, but it's one that I've been stuck on for quite some time. How do you approach emotions for cartoon animals? Whenever I draw an animal their muzzle always seems to get in the way of the emotion. And even if I can make a certain kind of emotion work with one type of animal, I can never transfer it over to another kind of animal. It's stumped me for years.
Thanks.

[rcatizone]

I'm anxious to hear Don's answer, but to help in the meantime...

Expression isn't just in the mouth. It's in the eyes.

When the character has a muzzle, or some of the long-nosed style commercial cartoons I have done, you have to work out what are the best angles to keep the nose or muzzle from hiding that expression. The head angle must also work for the emotion. (You don't look down when doing a big smile.)

Along with that, sometimes you need to cheat the mouth a little more to the camera side. Not draw it incorrectly for the perspective, but think of the character pulling his lips and facial muscles more to the side.

Expressions are "sort" of a formula, so you should be able to transfer it to any animal.

Last, watch Lion King and see how they worked more 3/4 and front shots so the lion heads could appear more "vertical" and mimic a human.

Best,
Rick

[Seth]

I'm anxious to hear Don's answer, but to help in the meantime...

Expression isn't just in the mouth. It's in the eyes.

When the character has a muzzle, or some of the long-nosed style commercial cartoons I have done, you have to work out what are the best angles to keep the nose or muzzle from hiding that expression. The head angle must also work for the emotion. (You don't look down when doing a big smile.)

Along with that, sometimes you need to cheat the mouth a little more to the camera side. Not draw it incorrectly for the perspective, but think of the character pulling his lips and facial muscles more to the side.

Expressions are "sort" of a formula, so you should be able to transfer it to any animal.

Last, watch Lion King and see how they worked more 3/4 and front shots so the lion heads could appear more "vertical" and mimic a human.

Best,
Rick

Wow! Thank you so much! This was very helpful. It's giving me a new look on drawing animals. I didn't notice until now, but I do always seem to draw my characters with their nose down on every emotion. Ooops!
Hey, Thanks again!

[Don Bluth]

Hey Don,

This probably isn't that great of a question, but it's one that I've been stuck on for quite some time. How do you approach emotions for cartoon animals? Whenever I draw an animal their muzzle always seems to get in the way of the emotion. And even if I can make a certain kind of emotion work with one type of animal, I can never transfer it over to another kind of animal. It's stumped me for years.
Thanks.

If you understand the feeling or emotion in yourself, put it on your face and look in the mirror. What you see yourself displaying in the mirror should be easy to put on the face of a character. Animation on characters faces are designed to resemble the human face, ie., mouth, chin, ears and cheeks.
The muzzle would be similar to a person with a very large nose.

Don

[arif]

Hello sir,

i have purchased a metronome what you have( i have seen it on the dvd)..but, still did`t get the idea how to use it.....it would be great you show us the uses for animation....may be a new tips in the animation tips section...

Regards,
Arif:rolleyes:

[Moneyguns]

When I draw I always try to finish what I'm working on in the moment I start it because if I end up having to work on it later It's really hard to get back into my subconscious mind and then I tend to destroy my drawing.

Dose anyone have any advice? Basically the problem is I have a really really really hard time entering that drawing state of mind or my subconscious.

[joedorsey]

I've been working little bit by little bit on this dog walk animation. In the process I have to force myself to get into the drawing mode.

I try to find a time during the day where I have the fewest distractions. Usually, it's at night when the kids are in bed and when I know I'll probably not get many cell phone calls. Poking around the message boards and animation blogs calms me down, so I do a bit of that.

Then I'll look over what I've done and try not to over-analyze my drawings, but be proud of how far I have come. Speed and greater skill will take time. I tend to tighten up when I draw, so having a moment to mellow out helps me loosen up mentally.

I know this sounds kind of like Animation Meditation. ;) It's what works for me and you have to find what works for you. Don listens to music. Richard Williams works in silence. It all depends on the person.

[Moneyguns]

Thanks, I'll remember that.:)

[Moneyguns]

DOSE ANYONE KNOW THE ANSWER TO DRAWING AND FRUSTRATION!???
Seriously

[Sidney]

Different for everyone really.
I like to approach it with my "I really don't care out this sketchbook" sketchbook.
I commit nothing to it. It's there to mood move me into a solid piece if I need help feeling out a character or an object. Be it what ever it is I'm currently working on I use this discard technique to avail the eraser syndrome and to keep a steady focus before turning to my fresh paper for a finished work.

I remember a time in highschool when I drew like crazy on lined paper only to have it be my better work because I knew it wouldn't amount to anything spectacular.
When the time came to apply the skill to unlined paper I found it to be of poorer quality.
Technique found. I applied this over time only to find myself not erasing so much because I anticipated my next line with confidence.

The approach lends a hidden gem of uninhibiting yourself from the evil eraser.
My approach but not neccessarily for everyone.

[Moneyguns]

That's a good idea Sidney. Thanks for the tip.:) I'm going to try that next time.

Dose no one else get frustrated? Are me and Sidney the only ones that got hit? Dose everyone else just have the touch or something?

[WillW]

I'm always frustrated with my work haha, though I see it as a positive thing. I see frustration as the backbone to becoming a great artist, With frustration your always thinking of improving. If you start getting comfortable with your art you no longer strive to improve. It can also have the side effect of making you feel like you should give up but you should do your best to fight against it.

[johncbeggs]

haha nothing worse than spending an hour of your life working on a character and then in a moment of frustration toss it out like garbage :laughing:.

[Richard Willimot]

This is why working rough is the best idea try not to get too attached to the drawing at first.Don talks about sketching the idea first and then filling in the detail.You'll learn quickly to see when somethings working or not and move on.You'll still get frustrated but hopefully it won't last as long.:)

[johncbeggs]

:laughing: I was joking pengy , I tend to usually rough it all out like Don first and if I dont like the pose I just eraserize it :D

[arif]

I'm always frustrated with my work haha, though I see it as a positive thing. I see frustration as the backbone to becoming a great artist, With frustration your always thinking of improving. If you start getting comfortable with your art you no longer strive to improve. It can also have the side effect of making you feel like you should give up but you should do your best to fight against it.

Absolutely right......................

[Moneyguns]

Thanks a ton for the advice guys. It really dose help.

[Moneyguns]

Anyone know how to get your self to work on a drawing that you didn't finish that you are to scared to work on because you don't want to destroy it. It's already on a crappy piece of paper too.
Basically I started a drawing then got a hair away from finishing it and then went on vacation for 3 days. Now I'm back and I've lost my drive to finish it and I cant get my self to not care that I might have to erase or mess up.

There's no one to ask this kind of stuff to hear in Mesa. You guys really are my only hope at getting the hang of this.:(

[jeremyhopkins]

Can you scan or photocopy the version you have now? If you work off the copy you won't have to worry about wrecking the original.

[joedorsey]

I know you're almost finished on the crappy piece of paper. I recommend getting a nice piece of paper and draw using your original as a reference. You won't destroy your original and you can always erase away on the new paper. I know it's starting over, but I wouldn't want you to mess up the first piece of inspiration.

All I can say is, I'd like to see your work. I can't make you draw, but we want to see you succeed and grow. You are a part of the team, so I'm here to say. Keep going! Pushing yourself isn't easy (I know), but do it any way.

I remember Don talking about thinking of yourself as an animator even if you aren't right now. But, getting it through your head and seeing it as a reality. That has helped me break through and push myself.

[Moneyguns]

Thanks for the help guys. I'll try what you guys said.

[Rodney]

When the forum is having slow traffic... it's good to re-read topics like these. Lots of good Q&A here. :)