Understanding Keyframes!

[johncbeggs]

Well here what I have been wondering about lately , How do you pinpoint a keyframe while imagining your scene.

I can visualize everything very vividly, my character and all his movements that ive planned but how do you pinpoint what should be a keyframe?

"yeah I built animation desk #2 you guys would really laugh at this one but it works great ".( pictures will be posted if anyone would want to see it :laughing: )

feels good to be animating again and its about time, I took Dons straightforward advice to work on my walkcycle wich is halfway done :D! and got an idea for a troll like character - I put a bunch of second actions on him so hes going to be a tough one to animate if i go through with it :).

thanks again everyone and Don and Dave for creating such a site I had only dreamed possible :D

and thanks to whoever replies to this post!

[jeremyhopkins]

John, from what I understand, it's probably better to use extremes and inbetweens for Don rather than keyframes. Extremes are the necessary drawings that describe the scene and without them, the visual goals of the scene are lost. Extremes can be associated with major changes in character thought, movement and rhythm. Inbetweens are everything that happen between those major movements. They can be removed and the story can still be told with the extremes alone. The breakdown is the king of the inbetween drawings because it describes the 'how'. Breakdowns usually have some sort of distortion like squash or stretch, the extreme part of successive breaking of joints, and it is a good indicator for character weight. If you can describe a scene with the extreme drawings plus breakdown, chances are, the scene will turn out pretty good. The final inbetweens are used to smooth out the action to prevent popping and strobing if they are well drawn and are properly placed on arcs.

If you're confused, think about the bouncing ball or pendulum swing. How many extremes are needed to get across the necessary information? Then, where would the breakdown happen and how would it look? You can apply this information to any animation planning.

Your best bet to start off is once you have an idea of what you want in your head is to thumbnail your extremes so you can have a conversation with your peers or supervisor. This will save you so much time!

Just as an aside, if you'd like to do a Cyber garage scene, maybe stick to Sasha, Momma Rabbit or the Fox character for now for your walk cycle. Your drawing and animation will change so fast as your skills develop and by the time you finish your walk cycle, you might feel limited by your design. You did a really good job on your first Sasha test and you're so close now to getting it right on the money. If you start focusing on a ton of secondary actions, you might miss out on understanding the character, getting the weight right, opposing action and the other principals. Secondary action can make a brilliant scene but it can't save a bad one. That was the advice Don gave me, it helped, and I hope it helps you.

[johncbeggs]

thankyou Jeremy,

I guess I sort of meant extremes :D instead of keyframes

Yea im working on my sasha walkcycle too, just a little worried i might not do it right!

[dartzy]

thankyou Jeremy,

I guess I sort of meant extremes :D instead of keyframes

Yea im working on my sasha walkcycle too, just a little worried i might not do it right!

Don't worry John. I havcen't finished my Momma Rabbit run cycle yet either. Just haven't had the time but I'm not giving up. :)

Kelley

[jeremyhopkins]

Sorry John, I'm not sure if I answered your question. I rarely use my own live action reference for acting because I'm a terrible actor. It's helpful for me to find the weight or physical motion if I'm confused but useless for acting ideas. It's also very limiting as well to jump straight into live action reference but that depends on the world and quality of characters you're animating. I know some people say to film live action first and cut together the best sequences. This probably works best for very realistic characters or a cg style where the characters are natural and have to have limitations placed on their movement to believe they exist and can be hurt or killed. My preference is to study how something moves until I can visualize it clear in my head. So rather than taking an actor and shooting reference of the scene, I'd rather take a person, study the walk, study the mannerisms, and feel of the person from a variety of sources, then take that knowledge and caricature it for the scene. If I get notes on the scene that the weight isn't working or my ideas aren't natural, I'll go back and shoot scene specific reference of someone but I feel that is best as a last resort.

In studying the live action, I will look it over several times and take the major poses necessary for the scene and copy & paste them from the quicktime into a photoshop file or export them in a series of images. Then I'll continue breaking things down until I have enough information to describe the scene. Quicktime also has a very nice feature if you click the timeline in the left hand corner, it will change to a frame counter and you can see each frame for the video reference and I'll write down this timing as well. Even with a realistic character, I think it's important to caricature the scene but this is the foundation and if anyone asks, I can point them towards the reference if there is an issue.

Granted, I haven't done anything special so it's probably best to hear the process from the real talents of animation.

[Don Bluth]

Sorry John, I'm not sure if I answered your question. I rarely use my own live action reference for acting because I'm a terrible actor. It's helpful for me to find the weight or physical motion if I'm confused but useless for acting ideas. It's also very limiting as well to jump straight into live action reference but that depends on the world and quality of characters you're animating. I know some people say to film live action first and cut together the best sequences. This probably works best for very realistic characters or a cg style where the characters are natural and have to have limitations placed on their movement to believe they exist and can be hurt or killed. My preference is to study how something moves until I can visualize it clear in my head. So rather than taking an actor and shooting reference of the scene, I'd rather take a person, study the walk, study the mannerisms, and feel of the person from a variety of sources, then take that knowledge and caricature it for the scene. If I get notes on the scene that the weight isn't working or my ideas aren't natural, I'll go back and shoot scene specific reference of someone but I feel that is best as a last resort.

In studying the live action, I will look it over several times and take the major poses necessary for the scene and copy & paste them from the quicktime into a photoshop file or export them in a series of images. Then I'll continue breaking things down until I have enough information to describe the scene. Quicktime also has a very nice feature if you click the timeline in the left hand corner, it will change to a frame counter and you can see each frame for the video reference and I'll write down this timing as well. Even with a realistic character, I think it's important to caricature the scene but this is the foundation and if anyone asks, I can point them towards the reference if there is an issue.

Granted, I haven't done anything special so it's probably best to hear the process from the real talents of animation.

Thanks Jeremy. I think your advice to John is sound. You have a good understanding of how it all works. I just want to say that I appreciate you getting involved and sharing your knowledge with others. About that remark, " I haven't done anything special," I think you just did.

Don

[johncbeggs]

Thankyou jeremy for the advice, I really appreciate it :) .
sorry for the late reply :)

[John]

Hi, I cannot afford to take part in your workshops (I'm a student) but i was wondering if there was anywhere to get some 2D character sheets?

I have only just started animating, and apart from a basic human character I am limited to my own very very bad characters, which is making it a huge mess.

Thanks.

[jeremyhopkins]

John #2, if you're looking for modelsheets, you can find them at animationmeat.com (http://www.animationmeat.com/modelsheets/bluthmisc/bluthmisc.html)

[John]

jeremyhopkins - Perfect! Thank you so much. :)