Equipment For Shooting Pencil Tests

[Seth]

Hello, fellow more experienced animators than me (this means you)

Does anyone have advice for getting a good Pencil Test set-up? I see you can buy ones online, but they seem to cost $1,500 or more. What do you use to shoot your Pencil Tests? Is there a way you can make your own set-up?

I'm using a scanner right now, but it takes so long to scan my drawings that I can't take it anymore.

Help a guy out,

Thanks.

[johncbeggs]

A cheap webcam and this program should work!

http://www.giantscreamingrobotmonkeys.com/monkeyjam/download.html

:D

I have not tried this setup myself but it would definately be quicker!

[WillW]

Webcam or a cheap capture card if you have a video camera that has an AV out on it.

And yes MonjeyJam is perfect for pencil test shooting! you pretty much just change each frame and capture by pressing enter.

My own set up is an HD Capture card with a 720p Camera stuck on top of a tripod (with one missing leg :C) aimed down at the paper. Faaar quicker then scanning each image in from personal experience!

[jeremyhopkins]

Has anyone tried HD webcams (http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/18/microsofts-lifecam-cinema-hd-webcam-lets-you-film-those-youtube/)?
I'm still using my scanner to scan most of my drawings but I'd really like to have camera based pencil tester as well.

[OwenWelsh]

I have the Brother MFC 6490 which has auto document feeder. I can scan about 150 drawings in 10 minutes without having to scan them one by one for a pencil test. You can load 40 drawings into the scanner feeder at a time and it will feed and scan them one by one automatically and number them for you. You need to put a black piece of tape under your scanner head so that the registration holes come up black during the scan. Then use your favorite program to register them. (they will look for the black peg holes and auto register for you). This method saves the peg holes on your animation paper from getting torn and worn out and you don't need the pesky re-enforcers which will sometimes buckle your paper.

[jeremyhopkins]

I've tried using automatic registration before and sometimes it works and other times it doesn't. Many times drawings don't auto rotate the way they should and it complicates things if I have to shoot a second test of the same scene. Is it consistent for you? What settings do you use to get things to scan and register properly? What program do you use?

[lavallelee]

Hello, fellow more experienced animators than me (this means you)

Does anyone have advice for getting a good Pencil Test set-up? I see you can buy ones online, but they seem to cost $1,500 or more. What do you use to shoot your Pencil Tests? Is there a way you can make your own set-up?

I'm using a scanner right now, but it takes so long to scan my drawings that I can't take it anymore.

Help a guy out,

Thanks.

I bet your thinking of the Masterclass set up, that was pretty nice. Would LOVE to have a setup like that.

[Seth]

I bet your thinking of the Masterclass set up, that was pretty nice. Would LOVE to have a setup like that.

How did you know? :laughing: I was happy with my scanner before I went to the classes, but now that I know you can shoot a pencil test in 30 seconds instead of an hour-in-a-half......I'm sorry HP Scanner 6800.......I don't love you anymore.

[DNethery]

Hello, fellow more experienced animators than me (this means you)

Does anyone have advice for getting a good Pencil Test set-up? I see you can buy ones online, but they seem to cost $1,500 or more. What do you use to shoot your Pencil Tests? Is there a way you can make your own set-up?



This might be some help to you:

http://animation-studio-stuff.blogspot.com/2009/05/animation-frame-capture-video-capture.html

A copy stand (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I1A0HY/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B003OA78LW&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0QH3TQXE9T5PKZA1ZZFC)is ideal for mounting a video camera.

A mini-dv camera like the Canon ZR-960 (http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CusaCatalogSearchResultView?searchTerm=+Zr960&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10051&pageSize=20&searchType=SITE&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_keyword=zr960&utm_campaign=VIXIA+New)works pretty well. (one of the last of a vanishing breed ... the mini dv format is almost gone , but lucky for us there are thousands of good used mini-dv cameras available on eBay and Amazon. Any mini dv with standard IEEE 1394 (firewire) dv-out interface will "talk" nice with most pencil test software .

Most webcams are too low-res. to get nice looking results. Usable for very quick rough pencil tests, but not ideal , IMO.

However, I'm interested in trying out this HD webcam , the aGent V5 (http://agent.liquiddigital.com.au/) , which boasts 1920 x 1080 resolution.

http://agent.liquiddigital.com.au/images/aGent_V5_Main.gif

The aGent V5 has a real tripod mounting socket so you can mount it securely on a tripod or copy stand.

http://agent.liquiddigital.com.au/images/tripodmount.gif

I haven't tried it yet, but am hoping to get one soon.



Actually for traditional animation pencil tests the best video cameras are B & W "surveillance/security " cameras , like these:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_jL0PYTVd-Zs/SfiBVIXMbeI/AAAAAAAADCg/3D2K4jEavig/s800/penciltestsetup_0003.jpg

These B & W cameras give a nice sharp image. You'll need an adapter (http://www.adstechnologies.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=4) to convert the analog S-Video signal from this kind of camera to a digital signal which can be input to your computer. These kind of cameras can be pricey by the time you get the camera, a lens, and the analog-to-digital adapter, but the quality is really good. If you look around you can find good used CCD B & W security cameras for a pretty reasonable price.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_jL0PYTVd-Zs/SgxzwIO_JoI/AAAAAAAAA8c/45lopoyHBbM/s400/SVideo_Out.jpg

[WillW]

lol hd webcams have gotten more advanced since I last checked, makes my HD capture card seem kinda useless now.

Looking forward to seeing what kind of quality you get with it, only seen youtube vids shot at 720p so far.

[lavallelee]

This might be some help to you:

http://animation-studio-stuff.blogspot.com/2009/05/animation-frame-capture-video-capture.html

A copy stand (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I1A0HY/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B003OA78LW&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0QH3TQXE9T5PKZA1ZZFC)is ideal for mounting a video camera.

A mini-dv camera like the Canon ZR-960 (http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CusaCatalogSearchResultView?searchTerm=+Zr960&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10051&pageSize=20&searchType=SITE&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_keyword=zr960&utm_campaign=VIXIA+New)works pretty well. (one of the last of a vanishing breed ... the mini dv format is almost gone , but lucky for us there are thousands of good used mini-dv cameras available on eBay and Amazon. Any mini dv with standard IEEE 1394 (firewire) dv-out interface will "talk" nice with most pencil test software .

Most webcams are too low-res. to get nice looking results. Usable for very quick rough pencil tests, but not ideal , IMO.

However, I'm interested in trying out this HD webcam , the aGent V5 (http://agent.liquiddigital.com.au/) , which boasts 1920 x 1080 resolution.

http://agent.liquiddigital.com.au/images/aGent_V5_Main.gif

The aGent V5 has a real tripod mounting socket so you can mount it securely on a tripod or copy stand.

http://agent.liquiddigital.com.au/images/tripodmount.gif

I haven't tried it yet, but am hoping to get one soon.



Actually for traditional animation pencil tests the best video cameras are B & W "surveillance/security " cameras , like these:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_jL0PYTVd-Zs/SfiBVIXMbeI/AAAAAAAADCg/3D2K4jEavig/s800/penciltestsetup_0003.jpg

These B & W cameras give a nice sharp image. You'll need an adapter (http://www.adstechnologies.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=4) to convert the analog S-Video signal from this kind of camera to a digital signal which can be input to your computer. These kind of cameras can be pricey by the time you get the camera, a lens, and the analog-to-digital adapter, but the quality is really good. If you look around you can find good used CCD B & W security cameras for a pretty reasonable price.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_jL0PYTVd-Zs/SgxzwIO_JoI/AAAAAAAAA8c/45lopoyHBbM/s400/SVideo_Out.jpg


Thanks for the info David, after using a camera setup, it's hard to go back to scanning.

I am going to save up to get a camera set up.

[OwenWelsh]

I've tried using automatic registration before and sometimes it works and other times it doesn't. Many times drawings don't auto rotate the way they should and it complicates things if I have to shoot a second test of the same scene. Is it consistent for you? What settings do you use to get things to scan and register properly? What program do you use?

It works well for me most of the time, some times if I get paper that is too thin, it will skip a drawing and that can be annoying. On my scanner I set it to B/W I believe 200dpi. It goes pretty fast. I think Monkey Jam, TV Paint and Digicel will look for the black peg holes. Although Digicel always crashes on me so I don't use it.

[Phrogger]

That copy stand looks perfect, as I already have a camera (an old digital camcorder) that should fit it. I need to experiment with software before I get that far though, I wasn't impressed with FlipBook at the workshop. When I scanned my bird animation into Photoshop, I had to register each image separately and bring it in on a different layer (ugh!). I'm also going to experiment with drawing right into the Cintiq, although I still prefer paper, of course. :)

FYI, Dave mentioned that he got that camera stand for something like $25 on Ebay.

[Dave]

That copy stand looks perfect, as I already have a camera (an old digital camcorder) that should fit it. I need to experiment with software before I get that far though, I wasn't impressed with FlipBook at the workshop. When I scanned my bird animation into Photoshop, I had to register each image separately and bring it in on a different layer (ugh!). I'm also going to experiment with drawing right into the Cintiq, although I still prefer paper, of course. :)

FYI, Dave mentioned that he got that camera stand for something like $25 on Ebay.

I did find the camera stand on Ebay but we modified it a bit to suit our needs. I found a link to something similar but it's a little more expensive than what we paid: Copy Stand on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/copy-stand-tabletop-desktop-12x18-19-tall-compact-new-/360275820337?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Digital_Camera_Accessories&hash=item53e21cbf31)

[Stewart]

I have the Brother MFC 6490 which has auto document feeder. I can scan about 150 drawings in 10 minutes without having to scan them one by one for a pencil test.

Thanks for posting Owen, this seems like a great buy, I paid more a few years ago for just an A3 printer and this is wireless as well! If it only printed onto cd's it would be perfect. Definitely on my shopping list once I get me-self a job.:laughing:

Just wondering if you don't mind me asking, are you using a Mac or a Windows machine and if so, have you had any problems with it? I use a Mac and sometimes this means compatibility problems, although things have improved in recent years!
Stu.

[DNethery]

Just wondering if you don't mind me asking, are you using a Mac or a Windows machine and if so, have you had any problems with it?

I use a Mac and sometimes this means compatibility problems, although things have improved in recent years!


Owen can give you his experience using the Brother MFC 6490 scanner, but I'll throw in my .02 cents:

I have the Brother MFC 6490 (http://animation-studio-stuff.blogspot.com/2009/05/inexpensive-large-format-scanner-for.html)and I have a Mac. Works great for me.


I will also just mention for your reference that if you have difficulties with any scanner working on the Mac there's a very useful software called VueScan (http://www.hamrick.com/) which will make most scanners work better . I've used it with some unruly scanners in the past that had poor or no Mac support.

However, that hasn't been a problem with the Brother MFC 6490 which works fine with my Mac.

==========

*EDIT:

On the question of video capture vs. scanning I wanted to add that I have generally found that I get much better results from a scanner than with any kind of video capture set up using a webcam or standard consumer level camcorder. The drawback is that most scanning (especially with a flatbed scanner) is much, much slower than video capture. The auto-feed tray on the Brother MFC 6490 (and it's ability to handle 12 field size animation paper) makes it a fairly fast way to scan drawings and then import them into an animation software to arrange them on the timeline/x-sheet , then export the final pencil test as a Quicktime movie.

The exception with video capture is if one is using a pencil test video set up that has a good quality "security/surveillance" type of camera as I mentioned in one of my previous posts. A surveillance camera gives a sharper image when capturing frames. The only drawback is that you must purchase a converter such as the ADS Pyro AV Link (http://www.amazon.com/ADS-API-558-EFS-Pyro-Video-Converter/dp/B000I7YP06) or the Canopus AV Converter (http://www.amazon.com/Canopus-77010150100-ADVC110-Converter/dp/B00030ATTO/) to take the analog signal from the security camera BNC output and convert it to a digital video signal which feeds into the computer. This is an additional expense, but the step up in quality for video capture using a surveillance camera is a noticeable improvement over using webcams or consumer-level camcorders.

[DNethery]

I thought I'd also mention that I came across a reasonably priced line test camera sold by a German company called ToonBase (http://www.toonbase.eu/catalog/index.php/language/en).

They sell if for 123 Euros which comes out to about $165 U.S. dollars after converting from Euro to Dollar.

Here's the link:

http://www.toonbase.eu/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/110

Unfortunately when I inquired about the camera they responded to me that they don't sell it outside of Europe. I'm not sure why , but it may be they just don't perceive enough of a market for it to go through the customs/import fee hassles of exporting it to North America ?

But who knows ? If enough people emailed them inquiring about purchasing their line test camera maybe they would reconsider shipping it outside of Europe ?

(although another problem besides the high shipping costs from Europe would be that the European voltage is 220v , which is different from the voltage used in North America, so an additional adapter (http://www.voltageconverters.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=VC750W) would need to be purchased to run the camera on North American electrical current)

You can see more photos of the ToonBase Line Test Camera at the link (http://www.toonbase.eu/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/110) .

http://www.toonbase.eu/catalog/images/toonbase-camera-details2.jpghttp://www.toonbase.eu/catalog/images/toonbase-camera-details3.jpg

[Phrogger]

What is the advantage of a special camera? I have seen people use a cheap webcam and at the workshop they used a plain ol' video camera. I think any camera that will mount to a standard bracket on the capture station should work. After all, we're talking about a pencil test, not the final art, right? I would think cheap and simple would be the way to go.

[DNethery]

What is the advantage of a special camera? I have seen people use a cheap webcam and at the workshop they used a plain ol' video camera. I think any camera that will mount to a standard bracket on the capture station should work. After all, we're talking about a pencil test, not the final art, right? I would think cheap and simple would be the way to go.


The advantage of a surveillance type of video camera is that it functions better under lower light conditions, yet still gives good image quality. Also, it is easier to maintain truly sharp macro focus with a manually focused lens. Webcams or mini-dv camcorders will struggle to give a sharp image without a lot of lighting. Even so it is sometimes very difficult to adjust the exposure and white balance to make the drawings look good under a webcam , because the webcams are not intended to photograph flat artwork, but are intended for human faces. (have you ever noticed the amount of pulsing and flickering in a pencil test shot with a webcam as the webcam constantly searches to find the focus and adjusts the exposure between frame captures ? It's distracting to watch a pencil test shot under those conditions) Typically if you get the exposure dark enough for the lines on the drawing to show up well then the rest of the image is murky (the "white" of the paper tends to go greyish or yellowish) or if you adjust the exposure so the paper area is light then the lines on the drawings tend to get washed out.

It's true that the pencil test is not the finished product , so it doesn't have to be pristine , but if you've ever shot a pencil test with a better grade video camera compared to a webcam you'll appreciate the difference it makes to see your lines in sharper detail , without the murky greyish/yellowish tone you typically get when shooting drawings with a webcam and the overall "soft" focus look to the lines.

This is my experience anyway. Others may have had better results.

I'm eager to test the aGent V5 HD webca (http://agent.liquiddigital.com.au/)m. I should have that soon . I'll post back here with test results. Maybe with the HD resolution it will get better results than with most webcams.

My first choice would still be to use an auto-feed scanner instead of video capture , but since there's an interest in using video capture for pencil testing I'm just tossing out some ideas on that based on my experiences.

[Dave]

The advantage of a surveillance type of video camera is that it functions better under lower light conditions, yet still gives good image quality. Webcams or mini-dv camcorders will struggle to give a sharp image without a lot of lighting. Even so it is sometimes very difficult to adjust the exposure and white balance to make the drawings look good under a webcam , because the webcams are not intended to photograph flat artwork, but are intended for human faces. Typically if you get the exposure dark enough for the lines to show up well then the rest of the image is murky (the "white" of the paper tends to go greyish or yellowish) or if you adjust the exposure so the paper is white then the lines tend to get washed out.

It's true that the pencil test is not the finished product , so it doesn't have to be pristine , but if you've ever shot a pencil test with a better grade video camera compared to a webcam you'll appreciate the difference it makes to see your lines in sharper detail , without the murky greyish/yellowish tone you typically get when shooting drawings with a webcam and an overall "soft" focus look to the lines.

This is my experience anyway. Others may have had better results.

I'm eager to test the aGent V5 HD webca (http://agent.liquiddigital.com.au/)m. I should have that soon . I'll post back here with test results. Maybe with the HD resolution it will get better results than with most webcams.

But the camera doesn't need to be anything special for shooting a pencil test. Depending on what software you're using to shoot your pencil test (in our case, Digicel Flipbook) the software will make all the adjustments to white balance and line contrast while you're shooting. And why would you even be shooting in low-light conditions? If you need more light to see your images under the camera then add more light; a simple desklamp works fine for lighting the camera stand.
We use an older Sony digital handicam to shoot our animation. I think we picked it up on Ebay for a couple of hundred dollars or less. I agree that a web cam is not suited for shooting pencil tests; at least not the web cams I tried.

[Dave]

That copy stand looks perfect, as I already have a camera (an old digital camcorder) that should fit it. I need to experiment with software before I get that far though, I wasn't impressed with FlipBook at the workshop. When I scanned my bird animation into Photoshop, I had to register each image separately and bring it in on a different layer (ugh!). I'm also going to experiment with drawing right into the Cintiq, although I still prefer paper, of course. :)

FYI, Dave mentioned that he got that camera stand for something like $25 on Ebay.

Kent Braun, the owner of Digicel, Flipbook came to our office last Thursday to give us more demonstrations of his software. I've got to say that when you see a professional at work then everything comes into perspective. He made navigating through his software seem so effortless. He is going to work on some issues we had during the Master Class but when he worked a couple of scenes from the last Master Class, the scenes came and timing of the scenes came out perfect. I was totally impressed! We did make it a point of telling him that there needs to be more video instruction for newbies to the software; he offered great explanations as to why the software might crash on some computers (scene too long or file size too large for the amount of available RAM on the computer).
Kent will be working a special price for his software for Don's Club members. I believe he said up to $400 off regular price. I'll get more information about that.

[DNethery]

But the camera doesn't need to be anything special for shooting a pencil test. Depending on what software you're using to shoot your pencil test (in our case, Digicel Flipbook) the software will make all the adjustments to white balance and line contrast while you're shooting. And why would you even be shooting in low-light conditions? If you need more light to see your images under the camera then add more light; a simple desklamp works fine for lighting the camera stand.
We use an older Sony digital handicam to shoot our animation. I think we picked it up on Ebay for a couple of hundred dollars or less. I agree that a web cam is not suited for shooting pencil tests; at least not the web cams I tried.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to give the idea that I was talking about a "special" camera. Maybe I didn't make myself clearly understood. The kind of camera I'm talking about (a surveillance/security camera) is a very basic thing ... pretty much just an "eye". Not fancy at all. These cameras can often be picked up quite cheap at military and electronics surplus stores or on eBay. But in my experience these tend to have sharper resolution than consumer-level camcorders. For my personal work at home I've used a Sony Handycam to shoot pencil tests and when I compare those pencil tests to my old reels of pencil tests shot while I was at Disney in the 90's ( using the surveillance-type cameras) I can see the difference. The older pencil test footage is sharper.

But honestly, I don't do much with video capture anymore. If I'm working with pencil drawings I prefer to feed them through the auto-feed scanner to get them into the computer. (and even so I find I'm using my Wacom tablet to draw with more often than I'm using pencil on paper these days) .

The type of camera I linked to above from ToonBase (http://www.toonbase.eu/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/110) isn't an expensive camera. It's 123 Euros ( = $165 U.S. dollars) . That's about the same as a used camcorder. The extra expense comes in because to digitize the signal you have to buy a converter , such as the ADS Pyro AV Link (http://www.amazon.com/ADS-API-558-EFS-Pyro-Video-Converter/dp/B000I7YP06) , which costs about $130 .

[Stewart]

Thought I'd share my setup for shooting pencil tests. It's not ideal but it's simple enough, I place my animation disk on the floor and us a DV camcorder on a tripod as a capture device via Flipbook. As you can see from the photos, the heat of the lamps can attract some unwanted attention!

http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/littlestu43/Bailey/Timeforanap.jpg

http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/littlestu43/Bailey/WonderingwhatImdoing.jpg

[Rodney]

I'm beginning to see the key to your success... you are putting the local talent to work! Must be keeping them pretty busy if they are falling to sleep at the animation desk.

I like your solution to shooting pencil tests.
If it works, it works!

[feliceworkshop]

Those two pictures where priceless!!! LOL :laughing::laughing::laughing: